Brian Wilson 2016 Tour Thread (Pet Sounds 50th Anniversary Tour)

[drbeachboy]

Is there a place where we can get the approved opinions and the correct agendas so we don't have all of this "diversity" (nose in air) of opinion? Maybe a loyalty test or pledge to sign:
"I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Kokomoist/Brianista Party (mark "X" next to only one)"

Maybe at the top of the "Welcome" page.

X  The Beach Boys (Independent Party)

[Wirestone]

I think Brian indisputably wants to perform and is proud of his band.

I think the question he -- and everyone else -- will have to answer eventually is whether the desire to perform is enough. For a long time, if Brian really wanted to do something, and do it well, he could. As he -- and all of us -- get older, that ceases to be the case. B.B. King and Chuck Berry wanted to keep performing too, and ended up as somewhat sad, addled figures onstage.

I do not want that for Brian, or anyone connected to the band.

[Ang Jones]

What I think some seem to be forgetting is that Brian has throughout the last 14 years had his off nights. I'm sure most performers do and Brian has problems to contend with that most don't. The idea that Brian has been doing wonderfully throughout those 14 years and is now noticeably worse is IMO mistaken. Some nights he is better than others - that has always been true. I enjoyed the Birmingham show and at Cardiff Brian seemed even more relaxed. The audience loved it and gave warm applause and ovations.

As long as there are people who want to see him and as he is enjoying performing, what is the problem? Of course, I don't want to see a situation in which Brian's performances become weaker, more jaded and he is evidently not enjoying himself but to me that time has not come yet. And when it does come, I hope that Brian can work that out for himself.

I don't think a tour as long as this one can be convincing if Brian truly is past it. Most of the reviews I have seen so far have been good. Not all will be because this depends not just on the performer but the reviewer's own mindset. Some will miss certain band members; for some it will bring back memories of a time when they were younger, life was different. But for me, even some of the differences in Brian's voice, though not an improvement, brought more nuances of emotion to the piece. I Just Wasn't Made for These Times was brilliant, so was Caroline No. Don't Talk was so moving.

It is the last time Brian will be performing Pet Sounds. Won't last forever - I intend to enjoy it whilst I can because it is an amazing experience.

[Custom Machine]

Proud boy is Mr Dean

Brian signed Holland first UPSIDE DOWN, so I got Al (who found it funny) and Blondie to follow suit 

[

Well, as far as the photo on the album cover is concerned, Brian signed it right-side-up. So you actually have a cool collectible that makes sense from the perspective of the album cover photo.

[Custom Machine]

Thanks, everyone, for the photos, personal reviews, and links to reviews.

The only bad news is that I've been made aware of a smear campaign about this tour appearing on the "usual suspect" Board, that normally attacks Brian. The campaign thread was made up nearly completely of people who "talked to friends" who were at Birmingham saying that Brian is clearly uncomfortable and should hang it up.  That is such a lie that it disgusts me.  Brian was clearly relaxed and he's doing what he enjoys, and my comments aren't hearsay crap.  It couldn't be more blatant what is going on there.  Everyone in he audience was thrilled that I talked to, aside from one woman.  She was complaining about "missing Foskett" and about Matt's vocals.  It was explained to me later that she has lost her band member who got her backstage passes and access to Brian in the past, so clearly she had an agenda, given who the band member was.  I hope she enjoys Klub Kokomo along with the others on that ugly thread.

The roar of the crowd at both these concerts speaks far louder than anything I can say.  

Debbie, what is the "usual suspect" board, that normally attacks Brian?

[HeyJude]

I would assume the reference is to the BB Britain board. There are a few posts there with the same "Brian looked like he didn't want to be there" commentaries that read *identically* to stuff I've read going all the way back to 1999. Seriously, it's like getting in a time machine reading stuff like that.

I've seen Brian however many times, a dozen or more, between 1999 and 2015 and he hasn't been too drastically better or worse at any of the shows. Some nights he's more upbeat than others. Occasionally, he's having a rough time. Remember, this is a guy who by his own admission sometimes hears auditory hallucinations during concerts. For fudge's sake man, I have trouble *listening* to music when someone is talking over it. Imagine having to *perform* with voices you have no control over.

In any event, I think questions about whether Brian's suited for touring are not all without some merit, or at least deserving of some thought or consideration. But really, I *still* stand by my feeling that, if you truly feel Brian shouldn't be out there now, then he should have *never* been out there. To suggest a 2004 or 2008 show was somehow "okay" but now he shouldn't be out touring doesn't make any sense to me.

This is also a repeat of March in Australia/New Zealand. Same thing happened. A night or two where Brian was maybe not as upbeat and run down, and I heard (from at least one of the same folks on the BB Britain board crying wolf again) the same stuff, variations on "My sources are telling me Brian looks bad and shouldn't be out there."

Have these people followed his career, and have they ever followed the trajectory of a BW tour (or many artists' tours for that matter)? There are ups and downs, and sometimes the downs are more pronounced with Brian for the myriad of *WELL KNOWN* reasons we're all familiar with. Those ups and downs have been there since 1999. It's part of the deal with Brian and his tours. If every show had him laying down on the stage like that 2007 gig with Al, then I think some harder questions would need to be asked.

I think the age issue is, DUH, slowly becoming an issue as it would with any artist. A lot of Brian's quirks and circumstances from the past had to do with the drugs, and Landy, and all of that weird stuff. I think Brian now is just running into normal "age" stuff on top of all of that other residual stuff.

I don't think Brian's going to do another 90-date tour every year for the next several years. I would venture to guess any 2017 tour will be at least a little lighter, and this 2016 tour is probably a tour length we'll never see again.

Also, no offense to any other boards, but I don't think a few cryptic negative comments on the BB Britain board are a big deal. That board gets *very little* traffic, and even less *substantive* traffic. (It's circa 1997 website design/format probably doesn't help things either; and I say that genuinely as a constructive criticism).

[drbeachboy]

After 17 years, fans on Beach Boys boards should know better than question Brian's demeanor on stage. He always has acted like that and it isn't going to change. I can understand a first timer making comments like that, but not fan boards.

[Emily]

I watched the TV "news" for the first time in years last night. They showed two hundred year old women completing 100 meter dashes.
Brian's a kid!

[John Manning]

Some of the comments here are growing somewhat disingenuous. Brits are as entitled to their opinions as anyone else, and some of the comments being moaned about here - whether you agree with them or not, whether they're actually right or not - arise from concern for Brian's health and well-being. They're opinions, just opinions; no one's gonna be sending Brian home to bed.

A hardcore of Brit fans follow Brian - and The Beach Boys actually – to most if not all gigs on every UK tour and often fly further afield, and do have pretty good idea of his up and down, hating it/loving it, take-it-or-leave it stage demeanour.

No saying anyone needs to agree with the comments that followed the Birmingham gig but accept that folk have the right to their own opinion. And if you disagree with it, why not step up and comment on the board itself, instead of gossiping about it on another board.

Forget I ever said that. I just hope reviews will focus on the gigs, and not on the fans at the gigs.

[Fire Wind]

Hey, is anyone around tonight who wants to buy a ticket for tomorrow's show?  It's Row J in the stalls, off to the side, but not up against the wall.

I'm going tonight and will need to collect the tickets from the box office.  I'll go to the show tonight, but need to skip tomorrow's show, so can let my ticket go.  It cost £86.90 in all.  Will sell for £70.

[STE]

Hey, is anyone around tonight who wants to buy a ticket for tomorrow's show?  It's Row J in the stalls, off to the side, but not up against the wall.

I'm going tonight and will need to collect the tickets from the box office.  I'll go to the show tonight, but need to skip tomorrow's show, so can let my ticket go.  It cost £86.90 in all.  Will sell for £70.

Don't need a ticket for Saturday's show, but if anyone has an extra for Friday's please let me know!

[Fire Wind]

Hey, is anyone around tonight who wants to buy a ticket for tomorrow's show?  It's Row J in the stalls, off to the side, but not up against the wall.

I'm going tonight and will need to collect the tickets from the box office.  I'll go to the show tonight, but need to skip tomorrow's show, so can let my ticket go.  It cost £86.90 in all.  Will sell for £70.

To add, if a would-be purchaser can't pick it up tonight, I'm okay to meet somewhere in London tomorrow.

[Cam Mott]

Is there a place where we can get the approved opinions and the correct agendas so we don't have all of this "diversity" (nose in air) of opinion? Maybe a loyalty test or pledge to sign:
"I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Kokomoist/Brianista Party (mark "X" next to only one)"

Maybe at the top of the "Welcome" page.

X  The Beach Boys (Independent Party)

Apparently not an option.

[HeyJude]

Some of the comments here are growing somewhat disingenuous. Brits are as entitled to their opinions as anyone else, and some of the comments being moaned about here - whether you agree with them or not, whether they're actually right or not - arise from concern for Brian's health and well-being. They're opinions, just opinions; no one's gonna be sending Brian home to bed.

A hardcore of Brit fans follow Brian - and The Beach Boys actually – to most if not all gigs on every UK tour and often fly further afield, and do have pretty good idea of his up and down, hating it/loving it, take-it-or-leave it stage demeanour.

No saying anyone needs to agree with the comments that followed the Birmingham gig but accept that folk have the right to their own opinion. And if you disagree with it, why not step up and comment on the board itself, instead of gossiping about it on another board.

Forget I ever said that. I just hope reviews will focus on the gigs, and not on the fans at the gigs.

I agree, and I think the problem with a very small smattering of internet commentary is that a quick comment, with no context, stating something like "The people I talked to at the gig last night saw things that were troubling" is nothing but a focus on some fans at the gig. That these comments can come from someone who wasn't at the show in question, not to mention that the comments are sometimes predictably cryptic and arguably hyperbolic, is what is troubling.

Nobody is saying everybody isn't entitled to their opinion. I just weigh the opinion accordingly. "Some fans I talked to who were at the gig last night saw some troubling things" is not a comment I'm going to give very much weight, for numerous reasons.

Not only have I seen Brian over a dozen times, I've been at arguably his most controversial gig/incident (the 2007 show where he decided to lay down on stage in the middle of the show), so I've seen how people who WEREN'T at the show in question will quickly run with vague reports that are either partly or wholly inaccurate and quickly paint a "sky is falling" scenario. Within *hours* of that 2007 gig, I saw "Brian collapses at show; he shouldn't be on tour anymore" posts from people who weren't there.

That 2007 gig was a good example of where context and even-handedness was important. I was suspicious of incorrect "Brian passed out on stage, his touring days are over" comments, and I would have also been troubled by any sunshiney "Brian's *fine*, there was *nothing* weird about that show last night" sorts of comments. That incident was weird; it was telling of something more than Brian "eating a bad burrito" as Foskett said. But it wasn't a "sky is falling" scenario either. And believe me, I say that as someone who was at the show and did have a brief moment of thinking "Did I really just witness Brian Wilson's last concert?"

If I see a review in 2016 of a Brian show directly from someone who was there, and who can articulate both their level of familiarity with Brian and the nuances of the show they saw, that's the sort of review I'll give more weight to.

Further, at least one well known person who has been running with this "Talked to some fans and what they saw was troubling" commentary is someone who I've seen do this numerous times in the past, and I've disagreed with their characterization and interpretation of what they're seeing on stage. It's just more of the "an impeccable source has informed me......" innuendo stuff. And yeah, sometimes I wonder if those types of commentaries occasionally go past the "opinion with questionable context" category and more into a predisposition to set out to paint Brian's "camp" in a poor light.  

[Emily]

Honestly it seems like a small minority are saying these 'Brian is over' sorts of things and they seem to all be related to one show. Don't know what's up there, but you're right, Hey Jude, that context of commentary matters.

[drbeachboy]

Honestly it seems like a small minority are saying these 'Brian is over' sorts of things and they seem to all be related to one show. Don't know what's up there, but you're right, Hey Jude, that context of commentary matters.

Also, a lot of smack gets talked about on these boards. I rarely trust any info here or anywhere else unless I know and trust the person who's fingers are typing the info supplied.

[guitarfool2002]

"I heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from...'

[You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered]

Not only have I seen Brian over a dozen times, I've been at arguably his most controversial gig/incident (the 2007 show where he decided to lay down on stage in the middle of the show), so I've seen how people who WEREN'T at the show in question will quickly run with vague reports that are either partly or wholly inaccurate and quickly paint a "sky is falling" scenario. Within *hours* of that 2007 gig, I saw "Brian collapses at show; he shouldn't be on tour anymore" posts from people who weren't there.

That 2007 gig was a good example of where context and even-handedness was important. I was suspicious of incorrect "Brian passed out on stage, his touring days are over" comments, and I would have also been troubled by any sunshiney "Brian's *fine*, there was *nothing* weird about that show last night" sorts of comments. That incident was weird; it was telling of something more than Brian "eating a bad burrito" as Foskett said. But it wasn't a "sky is falling" scenario either. And believe me, I say that as someone who was at the show and did have a brief moment of thinking "Did I really just witness Brian Wilson's last concert?"

Where was this? Is there video of this show available?

[HeyJude]

Not only have I seen Brian over a dozen times, I've been at arguably his most controversial gig/incident (the 2007 show where he decided to lay down on stage in the middle of the show), so I've seen how people who WEREN'T at the show in question will quickly run with vague reports that are either partly or wholly inaccurate and quickly paint a "sky is falling" scenario. Within *hours* of that 2007 gig, I saw "Brian collapses at show; he shouldn't be on tour anymore" posts from people who weren't there.

That 2007 gig was a good example of where context and even-handedness was important. I was suspicious of incorrect "Brian passed out on stage, his touring days are over" comments, and I would have also been troubled by any sunshiney "Brian's *fine*, there was *nothing* weird about that show last night" sorts of comments. That incident was weird; it was telling of something more than Brian "eating a bad burrito" as Foskett said. But it wasn't a "sky is falling" scenario either. And believe me, I say that as someone who was at the show and did have a brief moment of thinking "Did I really just witness Brian Wilson's last concert?"

Where was this? Is there video of this show available?

Nope. I was there, but there's no extant recording of it that I know of, certainly no video (dunno if an audience recording is out there, if so, I haven't heard though would love to as it was otherwise a really good show).

I think there used to be a few YouTube clips of the show (this was 2007, so I think it was shot in really crummy quality on an old flip phone or something), but even those clips didn't have any of the mid-show incident.

It was June 11, 2007 at The Mountain Winery in Saratoga, CA. Al was at the show as an unannounced guest. Near the mid-point of the show (there was no scheduled intermission), near the end of a song (trying to remember which, maybe "Sloop John B" or "I Get Around"), Brian stood up and just kind of sat down on the stage behind Al. My recollection is that he kind of plopped on the ground sitting with his legs extended straight out, but did so purposefully (he didn't appear to have collapsed or passed out). The deliberate nature (or appearance of such) as he did meant the rest of the band actually didn't appear too concerned. My recollection is that once the song ended, Al turned around and looked down to Brian and said something like "Hey Brian, you ok?" I remember Al seeming slightly more visually concerned than the rest of the band. Brian got up, went back to his seat at his keyboard, and said something like "I've just had a fainting spell. I don't know if I can continue with the show." He had a look on his face that was painful to see; my interpretation of it was that he was scared about not being able to finish the show, like he'd be in trouble for it or something (not like the promoter would take him backstage and yell at him or something, but just all of the normal problems an artist would run into if they aborted a show). He didn't look particularly ill or particularly wobbly or anything; he obviously seemed somewhat low in energy. My main memory is Brian saying "I don't know if I can continue the show" (or "I don't think I can continue the show", something along those lines), followed by a LOOOONG awkward silence from the audience and the band.

I was already prepping for the strong possibility that we'd be heading home at that point, only 15 or so songs into the show. I honestly wasn't super concerned about Brian's immediate physical health or anything. I was obviously concerned in general. But it wasn't like he fell off the stage unconscious or something. He seemed to have all his faculties and was moving around; it clearly wasn't a heart attack or anything. As I said, despite Brian calling it a "fainting" spell, it didn't even look like *that.*

At that point, the band (including Gary Griffin and Billy Hinsche who were fill-ins on this tour, so no Darian) didn't seem to be taking any action. After a few more moments of awkwardness, it was Al who seemed to take charge a bit and called for an intermission. I think the band and crew were thrown for a loop, because this tour didn't have any scheduled intermissions.

After an extended intermission, Brian came back out with the band. I believe he said some words, though I can't remember. I do remember Foskett doing his best to brush it off with humor, mentioning that Brian "ate a bad burrito."

Brian finished the set, with interestingly extra energy and zeal. After the show, the tour bus whisked him straight away driving through the section where fans exit the hilled area, and he rolled his window down and energetically waved to the fans.

Sorry for the extended story time.

The general point was that the incident was not without some weirdness, and did raise some questions I feel were worth asking. But it was also an example of “purple monkey dishwasher” style “a friend of a friend of a friend” speculation afterwards as well.(See "The Simpsons" for more on that reference!  )

The incident is briefly referenced in Jon Stebbins’s “FAQ” book as well.

[Douchepool]

Having heard some recordings of the latest tour (with plans to see Brian on 9/23 if money, work, school, and free time allows), Brian does sound pretty good, as does the band as usual. I'm a smidge biased, though; Brian hasn't sounded as good or seemed as fun as he was in 2009. I don't know if it was just catching Brian in a venue he liked or if something else was the cause. Not that he's bad now by any means; 2009 was just the apex.

[Cam Mott]

Not only have I seen Brian over a dozen times, I've been at arguably his most controversial gig/incident (the 2007 show where he decided to lay down on stage in the middle of the show), so I've seen how people who WEREN'T at the show in question will quickly run with vague reports that are either partly or wholly inaccurate and quickly paint a "sky is falling" scenario. Within *hours* of that 2007 gig, I saw "Brian collapses at show; he shouldn't be on tour anymore" posts from people who weren't there.

That 2007 gig was a good example of where context and even-handedness was important. I was suspicious of incorrect "Brian passed out on stage, his touring days are over" comments, and I would have also been troubled by any sunshiney "Brian's *fine*, there was *nothing* weird about that show last night" sorts of comments. That incident was weird; it was telling of something more than Brian "eating a bad burrito" as Foskett said. But it wasn't a "sky is falling" scenario either. And believe me, I say that as someone who was at the show and did have a brief moment of thinking "Did I really just witness Brian Wilson's last concert?"

Where was this? Is there video of this show available?

Nope. I was there, but there's no extant recording of it that I know of, certainly no video (dunno if an audience recording is out there, if so, I haven't heard though would love to as it was otherwise a really good show).

I think there used to be a few YouTube clips of the show (this was 2007, so I think it was shot in really crummy quality on an old flip phone or something), but even those clips didn't have any of the mid-show incident.

It was June 11, 2007 at The Mountain Winery in Saratoga, CA. Al was at the show as an unannounced guest. Near the mid-point of the show (there was no scheduled intermission), near the end of a song (trying to remember which, maybe "Sloop John B" or "I Get Around"), Brian stood up and just kind of sat down on the stage behind Al. My recollection is that he kind of plopped on the ground sitting with his legs extended straight out, but did so purposefully (he didn't appear to have collapsed or passed out). The deliberate nature (or appearance of such) as he did meant the rest of the band actually didn't appear too concerned. My recollection is that once the song ended, Al turned around and looked down to Brian and said something like "Hey Brian, you ok?" I remember Al seeming slightly more visually concerned than the rest of the band. Brian got up, went back to his seat at his keyboard, and said something like "I've just had a fainting spell. I don't know if I can continue with the show." He had a look on his face that was painful to see; my interpretation of it was that he was scared about not being able to finish the show, like he'd be in trouble for it or something (not like the promoter would take him backstage and yell at him or something, but just all of the normal problems an artist would run into if they aborted a show). He didn't look particularly ill or particularly wobbly or anything; he obviously seemed somewhat low in energy. My main memory is Brian saying "I don't know if I can continue the show" (or "I don't think I can continue the show", something along those lines), followed by a LOOOONG awkward silence from the audience and the band.

I was already prepping for the strong possibility that we'd be heading home at that point, only 15 or so songs into the show. I honestly wasn't super concerned about Brian's immediate physical health or anything. I was obviously concerned in general. But it wasn't like he fell off the stage unconscious or something. He seemed to have all his faculties and was moving around; it clearly wasn't a heart attack or anything. As I said, despite Brian calling it a "fainting" spell, it didn't even look like *that.*

At that point, the band (including Gary Griffin and Billy Hinsche who were fill-ins on this tour, so no Darian) didn't seem to be taking any action. After a few more moments of awkwardness, it was Al who seemed to take charge a bit and called for an intermission. I think the band and crew were thrown for a loop, because this tour didn't have any scheduled intermissions.

After an extended intermission, Brian came back out with the band. I believe he said some words, though I can't remember. I do remember Foskett doing his best to brush it off with humor, mentioning that Brian "ate a bad burrito."

Brian finished the set, with interestingly extra energy and zeal. After the show, the tour bus whisked him straight away driving through the section where fans exit the hilled area, and he rolled his window down and energetically waved to the fans.

Sorry for the extended story time.

The general point was that the incident was not without some weirdness, and did raise some questions I feel were worth asking. But it was also an example of “purple monkey dishwasher” style “a friend of a friend of a friend” speculation afterwards as well.(See "The Simpsons" for more on that reference!  )

The incident is briefly referenced in Jon Stebbins’s “FAQ” book as well.

That all sounds like a normal reaction to a very public fainting spell imo. You get to the floor where you think you might be ending up soon anyway and do it near your oldest nearest friend. I imagine that is more or less what any of us would do.

[mikeddonn]

Some of the comments here are growing somewhat disingenuous. Brits are as entitled to their opinions as anyone else, and some of the comments being moaned about here - whether you agree with them or not, whether they're actually right or not - arise from concern for Brian's health and well-being. They're opinions, just opinions; no one's gonna be sending Brian home to bed.

A hardcore of Brit fans follow Brian - and The Beach Boys actually – to most if not all gigs on every UK tour and often fly further afield, and do have pretty good idea of his up and down, hating it/loving it, take-it-or-leave it stage demeanour.

No saying anyone needs to agree with the comments that followed the Birmingham gig but accept that folk have the right to their own opinion. And if you disagree with it, why not step up and comment on the board itself, instead of gossiping about it on another board.

Forget I ever said that. I just hope reviews will focus on the gigs, and not on the fans at the gigs.

Well said John!

The thing that bothers me is that certain people who have never met some of the UK fans feel they can call them out for expressing concern about Brian.  You and I (and the others alluded to) have spent fortunes over the years following Brian all over the place, and then because some express an opinion they are accused of having an agenda and trying to sabotage the tour.  Ridiculous!   If I wanted to 'sabotage' a tour I wouldn't spend hundreds (thousands over the years) going to see Brian.  I don't think others would either.  If you listen to the conspiracy theorists you would think Brian sounded like the guy from the Lost Concert Show.  He doesn't.  He can still sound good but there are times (and even positive reviews of the show will mention it) when he doesn't sound so good.  It doesn't matter to me.  I love the guy and would give him a standing ovation for him just being on stage, the music over the years, the struggles he's overcome etc.  I'm sure most here would feel the same.  He deserves our support and feeds off it on stage.  I addressed the back problem in another post (maybe just to do with sitting for a while on stage.  No big deal once he's up and moving about).  But people are still allowed to express concern without ridicule.  Some of the stuff here is ironic.  People getting all hot and bothered that someone heard from a friend that Brian had an off night but on the other hand, others hear Brian had a great night from someone else and that's cool!  The only reviews we can believe are the good ones.  The negative ones must be written by folk who haven't got a clue.  Where's the middle ground?

I'm just going to savour every show and let Brian know how thankful I am by going along and having a great time!

Can everybody please stop trying to take sides and just get along?

[guitarfool2002]

Also, no offense to any other boards, but I don't think a few cryptic negative comments on the BB Britain board are a big deal. That board gets *very little* traffic, and even less *substantive* traffic. (It's circa 1997 website design/format probably doesn't help things either; and I say that genuinely as a constructive criticism).

I don't know if I should feel flattered by the attention, but the most active recent discussion on that board was back in November/December when Andrew (two Andrews, apparently) and several other former members of this forum who were banned decided to unload and turn it into a place to bash and criticize me for what they thought I did or didn't do here. That in itself was enough, but I also noticed the moderator apparently felt that was on topic enough to remain active, despite being everything but "It's all about the music", and even got in a few digs of their own. If that's the kind of board which encourages that kind of thing, then has members posting about comments made here about *there*, it becomes playground level kids' stuff. "I'm taking my ball and going home!" level dialogue. Nothing about the music. Just taking personal shots.

Then it became known that threads such as that on BBB were part of a deliberate effort to trash me and what I was supposed to have done or not done as a moderator of this board. Inspire others to join their calls for me to either step down or be 'fired', perhaps? In some cases it almost worked. Again this effort was involving members here who set out to discredit and bash me among others here, not only in light of the facts but again having nothing to do with coming to this forum or any other music community to talk about music, which is a regular charge for members to do more of. Yet that bashing fest stands as one of the most if not the most active thread on that community in months, if not all year. Do I get an end-of-the-year award for that distinction?  

It is unfortunate for the fans who actually do go there and here and anywhere else to post about the music, about shows, about anything related to the purpose of these forums. Because there are legitimately good, even great fans who like to hang out and talk.

It is a shame the real and honest-to-goodness fans have to unknowingly get pushed aside by the multiple layers that exist on these forums beyond fans coming here to read and talk to each other. It's not their fault there are others who are using these forums to purposely do things like the "Bash Guitarfool" type discussions at the end of last year and travel deep down into layers beyond what most people might think exist underneath all of this on the surface.

[mikeddonn]

Except when people post their opinions about the music (See NPP discussions) or Brian's shows which aren't to the liking of some then they are accused of having 'agendas'.  It cuts both ways.

[Smilin Ed H]

Also, no offense to any other boards, but I don't think a few cryptic negative comments on the BB Britain board are a big deal. That board gets *very little* traffic, and even less *substantive* traffic. (It's circa 1997 website design/format probably doesn't help things either; and I say that genuinely as a constructive criticism).

I don't know if I should feel flattered by the attention, but the most active recent discussion on that board was back in November/December when Andrew (two Andrews, apparently) and several other former members of this forum who were banned decided to unload and turn it into a place to bash and criticize me for what they thought I did or didn't do here. That in itself was enough, but I also noticed the moderator apparently felt that was on topic enough to remain active, despite being everything but "It's all about the music", and even got in a few digs of their own. If that's the kind of board which encourages that kind of thing, then has members posting about comments made here about *there*, it becomes playground level kids' stuff. "I'm taking my ball and going home!" level dialogue. Nothing about the music. Just taking personal shots.

Then it became known that threads such as that on BBB were part of a deliberate effort to trash me and what I was supposed to have done or not done as a moderator of this board. Inspire others to join their calls for me to either step down or be 'fired', perhaps? In some cases it almost worked. Again this effort was involving members here who set out to discredit and bash me among others here, not only in light of the facts but again having nothing to do with coming to this forum or any other music community to talk about music, which is a regular charge for members to do more of. Yet that bashing fest stands as one of the most if not the most active thread on that community in months, if not all year. Do I get an end-of-the-year award for that distinction?  

It is unfortunate for the fans who actually do go there and here and anywhere else to post about the music, about shows, about anything related to the purpose of these forums. Because there are legitimately good, even great fans who like to hang out and talk.

It is a shame the real and honest-to-goodness fans have to unknowingly get pushed aside by the multiple layers that exist on these forums beyond fans coming here to read and talk to each other. It's not their fault there are others who are using these forums to purposely do things like the "Bash Guitarfool" type discussions at the end of last year and travel deep down into layers beyond what most people might think exist underneath all of this on the surface.

Happens here too...