Original Beach Boys 60's 78 rpm records

[bringahorseinhere?]

okay...... has anyone got any? 

apparently in India and places like Africa, there were issue's of BB records on 78 rpm...??...

I have never read or seen one.....

anyone have any info or a link to confirm or deny?

and some pictures?

Thanks, RickB

[Tilt Araiza]

I searched a database of 78s and the only 60s one they listed was an Indian pressing of Little Honda

http://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/cle5

and this oddity turned up, Jerry Byrd and his Beach Boys

http://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/6058

I had heard of a 50s group called The Beach Boys, I don't know if this is the same.

[bgas]

If I was gonna bet, I'd say the pic of that Indian FFF was "stolen" from this ( our own) site:  http://www.beachboys45.nl/India-Capitol78RPM.htm

 I'd bet there are some other Indian 78s, but so far, no-one has volunteered any pics. 

There are, of course, some "re-issue" 78s from the UK ( I think) which were made specifically for jukeboxes; on the "PRIME "  label. The one I have has LDC on one side with another artist on the other side

[bringahorseinhere?]

OOOOOH!!!!   

I gotta get me one of those FFF/Honda 78's!!!!

that's the coolest BB item I've seen in a while....

anyone have one they wanna sell?...... 

I need that in my collection.

RickB

[Andrew G. Doe]

I searched a database of 78s and the only 60s one they listed was an Indian pressing of Little Honda

http://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/cle5

and this oddity turned up, Jerry Byrd and his Beach Boys

http://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/6058

I had heard of a 50s group called The Beach Boys, I don't know if this is the same.

Yeah...  I'm thinking... not. 

[Alan Smith]

Isn't 78rpm also how fast an actual Little Honda's engine runs?

[Stephen W. Desper]

okay...... has anyone got any? 

apparently in India and places like Africa, there were issue's of BB records on 78 rpm...??...

I have never read or seen one.....

anyone have any info or a link to confirm or deny?

and some pictures?

Thanks, RickB

COMMENT:

Recording engineers do more than make recordings.

Back in the late '60s or early '70s Alan Jardine became very interested in old Juke Boxes and bought a vintage Wurlitzer Juke Box. I helped to get it working and then he sent in out to have the early plastic finish and unique bubble lighting refurbished. If I recall correctly, Al bought a Wurlitzer model 800, as I remember the bubble lights. Here’s a link to how it looked.

Model 800 >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hssY1qPwjmc

This particular Juke Box was made in the late 40’s, so the changer only played 78 RPM Shellac records.

For those of you who are interested in the mechanics of these Juke Boxes, here is a link for a tour of the same changer, but used in a later model 1100. This link has more detail about the changer and amplifier/speaker, but still apply to Al’s box.

Model 1100 >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-FxOnIbk3Q

At that time Alan was really doing a number on the lobby/lounge of the Red Barn Studio. His collection of Beach Boy memorabilia was overwhelming. He had stuff from all over the world; concerts, posters, instruments, and much more, some of it – so unique. He wanted to display as much of it as he could in the studio’s lobby. By the time he was finished, every surface, including the bar and the ceiling was covered. The collection spilled out into the studio itself, the bathroom and hallway were also completely covered with stuff you would never find anywere, unless you were a Beach Boy and got things like "the key to a city" or a plaque from Billboard commemorating some sale number. Too bad you fans did not have the chance to see all this stuff. You could have spent several days looking through it all of it ... and then another day to clean the drool from the floor.

One of the highlights of this room was to be a fully working old Wurlitzer Juke Box loaded with only Beach Boy hits, 24 singles. But the Juke Box he wished to use did not take 45’s, nor would vinyl 78’s work. It only used heavy Shellac 78’s. I note that because it would have been relatively simple to cut some 78 acetates and use them, but the softer acetate would only have lasted for a couple of plays before falling apart. He could have bought a newer Juke Box that used 45s, but NO, Alan wanted an older type Juke Box. He liked the bubble lights. So he found a company that (back then) was still making 78 shellac records. He sent them about 30 Beach Boy hits to have transferred to the 78-shellac format. The Juke Box would only hold 24 selections so he had a few extra.

I must say, it was really a hoot stand in front of one of these beauties, put your coin in the slot and hear Little Deuce Coupe or Fun, Fun, Fun come booming from a 78 on one of these old machines. Sounded great! True to Alan’s Scottish heritage, you had to supply your own coins to hear anything – and he kept the coins!   

Although there may be other 78s out there, the 78s of Alan’s are the only 78 shellac records of Beach Boy songs I know about.

Good Listening, ~Stephen W. Desper

[halblaineisgood]

.

[Tilt Araiza]

Yeah...  I'm thinking... not. 

No I mean same as the 50s Beach Boys I'd heard tell of.  It's been approximately 350,000 years since I last heard or read anyone discussing the 50s Beach Boys but my memory is that their single or singles came out c.1958 (with Hawaiian song titles like the above 78).  A bit of reading on the Jerry Byrd 78 indicates it's from 1953, so are there 3 sets of Beach Boys?

[bringahorseinhere?]

Great info Steve.......... Thanks for chiming in on Al's Juke...

Fascinating story......

I hope Al leaves that in his will to ME!!! 

I want it..

RickB

[Custom Machine]

Stephen, thanks for sharing the interesting info on Al's bubbler jukebox and his quest to find 78 rpm BB records!

Judging from the pics on the Red Barn Studio site, Al has at least two classic jukeboxes these days, a Wurlitzer "Victory" model and a Wurlitzer model 1015.  No complete jukeboxes were manufactured in the US during WWII, due to a shortage of metal and the fact that the Wurlitzer factory was primarily used to produce war related materials, so to fulfill the demand for new jukeboxes a new cabinet made of wood and plastic, dubbed the Victory, was sold to jukebox operators 1942-45.  The Victory cabinet could then be fitted with the inside mechanisms, amp, and speaker of any 24 play Wurlitzer (1938-42) and appear to be a completely new model.

After the war was over the Wurlitzer 1015, aka "The Bubbler", was introduced and during its 1946-47 production run it became (and remains to this day) the best selling jukebox of all time.  It featured 8 bubble tubes on the curved top and sides and I'm wondering if Stephen thinks it possible that the model 1015 may have been Al's original juke box, or if it was in fact the model 800 (from 1940) and Alan added the model 1015 later on.

I will add that in addition to shellac records, 78 rpm jukeboxes will play 78 rpm vinyl records just fine, in fact due to the heavy tracking forces used by such machines, vinyl 78's have a much longer life span than the more fragile and easily worn shellac 78s.  In fact, a number of vinyl 78s were seen toward the end of the 78 rpm era in the very late 50s (and beyond in some countries).  The exception would be a 78 pressed with today's standard microgrooves, as found on LP records, and which are made to be played with an approx 0.7 mil stylus, as opposed to the much wider approx 2.5 - 3.0 mil styli used to play 78s.  The only ten inch vinyl 78 of which I am aware (but certainly there could be more) that cannot be played on a 78 rpm jukebox with a standard 78 rpm stylus is the Beach Boys Good Vibes / Heroes & Villains 2 disc set sold on Record Store Day three years ago.  Unfortunately that set was pressed with the modern microgrooves found on 33 ⅓ LPs, and a 78 rpm stylus is simply to wide to ride for long in those narrower grooves before popping out and skating across the disc.

Some more history - the 24 play Wurlitzers, such as the 800, Victory, and 1015 became close to valueless by the mid-fifties as they would play only one side of twenty-four 78 rpm records, whereas newer jukeboxes could play both sides of one hundred 45 rpm vinyl records, which were more compact, easier to handle, and less susceptible to wear.  But circa the mid-70's interest in and appreciation for those old models began to develop and expand.  This led not only to a huge increase in prices, but to vinyl bootlegs of some songs which had never appeared on 78s, such bags' mention of 409 on Prime Records.  Prime did at least one other vinyl 78 rpm Beach Boys boot, Fun Fun Fun / Little Deuce Coupe.  Later on Rhino produced three licensed sets of vinyl 78's for jukebox use, but those sets did not include any tunes by the BBs.  Starting in the 80's the Wurlitzer 1015 bubbler design was copied by other manufacturers for their own 45 rpm jukeboxes, and in 1986 Wurlitzer came out with the 1015 OMT ("One More Time") which played fifty 45 rpm records.  The 1015 OMT is still available today as a Compact Disc model.

In addition to the links of the Wurlitzer 800 and 1100 posted by Stephen, for anyone interested, a whole bunch of videos can be found on YouTube of the Wurlitzer Victory, model 1015, and model 1015 OMT.

[Stephen W. Desper]

Stephen, thanks for sharing the interesting info on Al's bubbler jukebox and his quest to find 78 rpm BB records!

Judging from the pics on the Red Barn Studio site, Al has at least two classic jukeboxes these days, a Wurlitzer "Victory" model and a Wurlitzer model 1015.  No complete jukeboxes were manufactured in the US during WWII, due to a shortage of metal and the fact that the Wurlitzer factory was primarily used to produce war related materials, so to fulfill the demand for new jukeboxes a new cabinet made of wood and plastic, dubbed the Victory, was sold to jukebox operators 1942-45.  The Victory cabinet could then be fitted with the inside mechanisms, amp, and speaker of any 24 play Wurlitzer (1938-42) and appear to be a completely new model.

After the war was over the Wurlitzer 1015, aka "The Bubbler", was introduced and during its 1946-47 production run it became (and remains to this day) the best selling jukebox of all time.  It featured 8 bubble tubes on the curved top and sides and I'm wondering if Stephen thinks it possible that the model 1015 may have been Al's original juke box, or if it was in fact the model 800 (from 1940) and Alan added the model 1015 later on.

I will add that in addition to shellac records, 78 rpm jukeboxes will play 78 rpm vinyl records just fine, in fact due to the heavy tracking forces used by such machines, vinyl 78's have a much longer life span than the more fragile and easily worn shellac 78s.  In fact, a number of vinyl 78s were seen toward the end of the 78 rpm era in the very late 50s (and beyond in some countries).  The exception would be a 78 pressed with today's standard microgrooves, as found on LP records, and which are made to be played with an approx 0.7 mil stylus, as opposed to the much wider approx 2.5 - 3.0 mil styli used to play 78s.  The only ten inch vinyl 78 of which I am aware (but certainly there could be more) that cannot be played on a 78 rpm jukebox with a standard 78 rpm stylus is the Beach Boys Good Vibes / Heroes & Villains 2 disc set sold on Record Store Day three years ago.  Unfortunately that set was pressed with the modern microgrooves found on 33 ⅓ LPs, and a 78 rpm stylus is simply to wide to ride for long in those narrower grooves before popping out and skating across the disc.

Some more history - the 24 play Wurlitzers, such as the 800, Victory, and 1015 became close to valueless by the mid-fifties as they would play only one side of twenty-four 78 rpm records, whereas newer jukeboxes could play both sides of one hundred 45 rpm vinyl records, which were more compact, easier to handle, and less susceptible to wear.  But circa the mid-70's interest in and appreciation for those old models began to develop and expand.  This led not only to a huge increase in prices, but to vinyl bootlegs of some songs which had never appeared on 78s, such bags' mention of 409 on Prime Records.  Prime did at least one other vinyl 78 rpm Beach Boys boot, Fun Fun Fun / Little Deuce Coupe.  Later on Rhino produced three licensed sets of vinyl 78's for jukebox use, but those sets did not include any tunes by the BBs.  Starting in the 80's the Wurlitzer 1015 bubbler design was copied by other manufacturers for their own 45 rpm jukeboxes, and in 1986 Wurlitzer came out with the 1015 OMT ("One More Time") which played fifty 45 rpm records.  The 1015 OMT is still available today as a Compact Disc model.

In addition to the links of the Wurlitzer 800 and 1100 posted by Stephen, for anyone interested, a whole bunch of videos can be found on YouTube of the Wurlitzer Victory, model 1015, and model 1015 OMT.

COMMENT:  Maybe you don't understand. I was there. I had the damn thing apart. I had to figure out how to fix it. It was an 800. I'm certain Alan has continued to add to his collection as the barn/studio has room for all the jukes on the veranda. This was one, if not the first one he bought. I don't know if he still has it or about the records. I remember the bubble tubes in the front, not on the arch, but beside that, the video shows plenty of detail to recall the Model 800. I think he had some Rock-O-La's too.

The mechanism in the 800 was designed to track hard 78 disks. The most important thing about restoration is authenticity. We tried a 78 vinyl on the machine, a song by another artist. It slipped, due to its lightweight, and wore out after only a few plays. This is because the tracking force required of the mechanism was about 1.5 ounces,  THATS OUNCE NOT GRAMS  Today's vinyl’s are tracked at 1.5 to 4 grams. These were tracked at around 25 grams. Then also there is the sound of the shellac record that captures the technology at its time in history. If you're going to substitute vinyl for shellac, then why stop there; why not plug a CD player or an iPodd directly into the amplifier. Not authentic. Alan like the idea that the technology pre-dated the musical era in which the Beach Boys are known, but yet there it was for 25 cents. How did The Beach Boys span to a time and technology of the past -- way past, like WWII. Just how did this come about, the questioning guest might ask him or herself while standing in front of a working 1940's Juke box with only Beach Boy songs to select. Wait a minute!  This is a mind f***. 

I beg to differ with you about the toughness of vinyl. At the tracing forces required of these old pickup cartridges, the diamond needle required to trace a groove cut in vinyl, will re-trace the groove of softer vinyl, removing and smoothing over details that were in the wiggles. Whereas, the softer steel needle will do the wearing while tracing the harder shellac record. The shellac record may be more brittle and more easily broken then the flexible vinyl counterpart, but at the surface or where the styles meets the modulation, the steel needle tracking a 78 shellac record was the better way -- and they don't slip.

Later jukes did use vinyl 78's but with micro.7 vertical groove modulation. This was soon replaced by the LP format, quickly leading to the 45, the most suited format for Juke Box changers.

For those of you who took the time to look at the two Youtube videos I suggested in my first posting, I thought it was interesting that the tally of that chart we all watched from time to time in Billboard, the “top 40 plays on Juke Boxes around the country” and how that was calculated right inside the Juke box changer itself. 

~SWD

[getchaback]

okay...... has anyone got any? 

apparently in India and places like Africa, there were issue's of BB records on 78 rpm...??...

I have never read or seen one.....

anyone have any info or a link to confirm or deny?

and some pictures?

Thanks, RickB

[bgas]

okay...... has anyone got any? 

apparently in India and places like Africa, there were issue's of BB records on 78 rpm...??...

I have never read or seen one.....

anyone have any info or a link to confirm or deny?

and some pictures?

Thanks, RickB

when you repost something you're supposed to add to it, otherwise why bother?

[Lee Marshall]

when you repost something you're supposed to add to it, otherwise why bother?

Oh.