Why do you hate Mike Love?

[rab2591]

It's hard to take VDP verbatim after all the crap he's been posting recently. I think it's a poetic license in order to stab ML and fulfill his fixation with Mike.

Hard to take a story told to a New York Times reporter in 2000 verbatum because of a sparse handful of Twitter posts from the year 2014+?

Adding this one to my list of most ridiculous Mike apologist defenses - and the list is growing ever larger with each passing day

[SMiLE Brian]

Exactly Rab, Mike is a bitter old f*ckwit who screwed and ripped off VDP 30 years after smile. Plus having vulgar and crass lyrics showing his creepy "romantic" skills.

Those 'lyrics' reminded me of Shakespeare - specifically "Was ever woman in this humour wooed? Was ever woman in this humour won?"

And that's the ONLY way they remind me of Shakespeare.

Mike is Shakespeare in his sick mind.

[rab2591]

Exactly Rab, Mike is a bitter old f*ckwit who screwed and ripped off VDP 30 years after smile. Plus having vulgar and crass lyrics showing his creepy "romantic" skills.

Those 'lyrics' reminded me of Shakespeare - specifically "Was ever woman in this humour wooed? Was ever woman in this humour won?"

And that's the ONLY way they remind me of Shakespeare.

Mike is Shakespeare in his sick mind.

Come on baby wouldn't it be nice
If I could take you down to paradise
Sweet little mama gotta get away
Your daddy knows a little hideaway

Hey girl I got some good advice
Drive your dad mad and
Make him take you down to paradise

[SMiLE Brian]

No wonder BW doesn't want to go in the "room" with Mike.

[filledeplage]

Brian fans don't like SIP? Must be because Brian wasn't on it! - lest we forget many Brian fans dislike GIOMH, so obviously we don't all go gaga over everything the man does, but let's not let logic get in the way.

SIP is a middling latter day release such as KTSA, BB85 and Still Crusin' and would be viewed as such by many Brianistas if Brian had even minimal involvement in it. As he doesn't it's used as Mike bashing fodder to the extreme ("worst album ever made" and other such BS). Granted the drum sound is the worst the BBs ever used.

  Sorry, no. SIP does not keep company with the likes of KTSA, 85, STILL CRUISIN.

I, for one, think it does.  The best song on 85 is the hum-drum "Getcha Back"?  And they couldn't even come up with enough original material to fill an album for STILL CRUISIN???  

Hard times, man!  Hard times!

  "Getcha Back" is infinitely better than anything on SIP.

  There was enough new, or relatively new, material for the entirety of STILL CRUISIN', but the group and Capitol opted to go for oldies to fill out the record. Something like "The Spirit of Rock & Roll" or "Let's Go to Heaven in My Car", which would have fit into the album's "concept." Had this approach been taken, STILL CRUISIN' would stand as an OK record.


 SIP: the worst album ever released by a major rock band. The fact that it has been disowned by its makers tells you the whole story.

Exactly. It's no contest. KTSA, BB85, Still Cruisin all had hits and charting songs on them (Wipeout, Getcha Back, Goin On, etc). Each of these albums charted. Again, that Summer in Paradise was the first Beach Boys studio album that failed to chart says a lot - not to mention most critics, fans, Beach Boys historians call it their worst album as well. Not to mention it's not sold anymore. Not to mention no one in the Beach Boys management seems to be eager to re-release it.

Lest we forget how godawful the lyrics are on some of these songs:

"Yeah I'll take you to the movies
But I'm no fool
First I'll get you on the beach
Or in a swimming pool
Doing unto others is the Golden Rule
But doing it with you would be so
Very cool"

I think Peter Carlin put it best, "But even the lite-metal guitars on Dennis's once-understated ballad weren't quote as painful as Mike's "Summer of Love" which climaxed, so to speak, in a hail of yucky sexual references (Mike in Señor Suave mode, crooning about the joys of doing "it" in disparate, summery venues, including a beach and a swimming pool) that seem designed to excite the wrath of the same Parents Music Resource Center Mike had once supported."

And partially getting back on the main topic at hand: this was the same album that featured Van Dyke Parks playing accordion on one song....here is part of that story from a 2000 article:

"Parks recalls he saw Love one final time when Melcher called him to Monterey to play synthesizer on the Beach Boys' final album, recorded without Brian, 1992's dreadful Summer in Paradise. A neighbor offered to fly the musician to Monterey in his one-engine plane if Parks agreed to cover gas and other expenses. When he got there, Love was meditating in Melcher's living room. "For the first time in 30 years, he was able to ask me directly, once again, 'What do those lyrics -- Over and over the crow flies, uncover the cornfield -- mean?'" Parks said about that meeting in '95. "And I was  able to tell him, once again, 'I don't know.' I have no idea what those words mean. I was perhaps thinking of Van Gogh's wheat field or an idealized agrarian environment. Maybe I meant nothing, but I was trying to follow Brian Wilson's vision at that time." Parks says Love asked if he could fly back to L.A. in the plane with him. "We had a nice chat and he insisted that he wanted to split the cost of the flight with me, so he gave me a card with his number on it. The next morning, I called to discover it was a disconnected number. And that was the last time I saw Mike Love.""

And from last month's PR 'I-Need-To-Back-Pedal-And-Let-People-Know-I-Love-Brian' bonanza:
“By the way,” Johnston chimes in, “he plays a 100-year-old accordion on ‘Kokomo.’ ”
“That certainly gives a lie to this idea that we don’t like Van Dyke,” - Mike Love

ok Mike

And notice even the New York Times writer calls Summer in Paradise "dreadful" - HE MUST BE A BRIANISTA

It's hard to take VDP verbatim after all the crap he's been posting recently. I think it's a poetic license in order to stab ML and fulfill his fixation with Mike.

Exactly- it is not fact checked.  On his Twitter on June 26, he saluted Abner Doubleday as the inventor of baseball. No way was he the inventor.  

It was an evolution of town ball and rounders.   There was in Pittsfield, Massachusetts, a bylaw, on the books, from September 5, 1791, advising not to play "wicket, cricket, baseball, bat, football, cat, fives...within eighty yards of said Meeting House."  

And on July 1, VDP is saluting George Sand as a "poetess" - she was a novelist. Big difference in literature between a poet and novelist.

George Sand (born Amantine-Lucile-Aurore Dupin) is said to have stretched out underneath Chopin's piano while he played.

[rab2591]

So Van Dyke Parks tells a story to a reporter who works for the most well known and (arguably) respected newspapers of all time about a conversation he had with Mike and how Mike stuck him with paying for jet fuel...You guys are comparing that to Park's getting some trivial facts wrong on some Twitter posts?

Seriously, the lengths you guys will go to defend Mike is astounding.

[SMiLE Brian]

It's like at the level of them backing up Mike saying the earth was flat.

[filledeplage]

So Van Dyke Parks tells a story to a reporter who works for the most well known and (arguably) respected newspapers of all time about a conversation he had with Mike and how Mike stuck him with paying for jet fuel...You guys are comparing that to Park's getting some trivial facts wrong on some Twitter posts?

Seriously, the lengths you guys will go to defend Mike is astounding.

Let's see...doesn't BRI have a corporate phone number?

I'm not defending Mike.  

I'm calling out VDP on his published inaccuracies.  

People take whatever comes out of his mouth as gospel.

Boo hoo.

[ontor pertawst]

Published inaccuracies? A twitter feed? Good luck with that one. Don't call him out here, tweet him back and get very upset about calling a dead novelist a poet. I'm sure he'd appreciate it.

[rab2591]

So Van Dyke Parks tells a story to a reporter who works for the most well known and (arguably) respected newspapers of all time about a conversation he had with Mike and how Mike stuck him with paying for jet fuel...You guys are comparing that to Park's getting some trivial facts wrong on some Twitter posts?

Seriously, the lengths you guys will go to defend Mike is astounding.

Let's see...doesn't BRI have a corporate phone number?

I'm not defending Mike.  

I'm calling out VDP on his published inaccuracies.  

People take whatever comes out of his mouth as gospel.

His published inaccuracies in a couple trivial Twitter posts regarding literature and baseball from 2014+ have absolutely nothing to do with the incredibly slim possibility he lied to the worlds most well known newspaper in 2000 about this Mike meetup in Melcher's living room and the jet fuel payment snub that followed.

Nice try though.

[SMiLE Brian]

Every interview Mike Love has ever done has a ton of published inaccuracies.

[filledeplage]

So Van Dyke Parks tells a story to a reporter who works for the most well known and (arguably) respected newspapers of all time about a conversation he had with Mike and how Mike stuck him with paying for jet fuel...You guys are comparing that to Park's getting some trivial facts wrong on some Twitter posts?

Seriously, the lengths you guys will go to defend Mike is astounding.

Let's see...doesn't BRI have a corporate phone number?

I'm not defending Mike.  

I'm calling out VDP on his published inaccuracies.  

People take whatever comes out of his mouth as gospel.

His published inaccuracies in a couple trivial Twitter posts regarding literature and baseball from 2014+ have absolutely nothing to do with the incredibly slim possibility he lied to the worlds most well known newspaper in 2000 about this Mike meetup in Melcher's living room and the jet fuel payment snub that followed.

Nice try though.

Every print and electronic media source is subject to scrutiny and bias.

Parks holds himself out as an intellectual.

Absent witnesses who can support this, I'm not buying it.

Didn't he refer to Brian as a buffoon? Or had "buffoon-like" behavior?

Please. 

[CenturyDeprived]

So Van Dyke Parks tells a story to a reporter who works for the most well known and (arguably) respected newspapers of all time about a conversation he had with Mike and how Mike stuck him with paying for jet fuel...You guys are comparing that to Park's getting some trivial facts wrong on some Twitter posts?

Seriously, the lengths you guys will go to defend Mike is astounding.

Let's see...doesn't BRI have a corporate phone number?

I'm not defending Mike.  

I'm calling out VDP on his published inaccuracies.  

People take whatever comes out of his mouth as gospel.

Boo hoo.

Well, if it was in fact true, exactly as described? If there were video evidence of such? What then? Would that at least prove that it was a crappy, underhanded thing for Mike to have done? Or would that lead to yet another attempt at finding a way to justify his behavior?

[SMiLE Brian]

Exactly, these posters are practically PR people working for the loves with all these lame "defenses"

[filledeplage]

So Van Dyke Parks tells a story to a reporter who works for the most well known and (arguably) respected newspapers of all time about a conversation he had with Mike and how Mike stuck him with paying for jet fuel...You guys are comparing that to Park's getting some trivial facts wrong on some Twitter posts?

Seriously, the lengths you guys will go to defend Mike is astounding.

Let's see...doesn't BRI have a corporate phone number?

I'm not defending Mike.  

I'm calling out VDP on his published inaccuracies.  

People take whatever comes out of his mouth as gospel.

Boo hoo.

Well, if it was in fact true, exactly as described? If there were video evidence of such? What then? Would that at least prove that it was a crappy, underhanded thing for Mike to have done? Or would that lead to yet another attempt at finding a way to justify his behavior?

Who cares?
Parks knows where the courthouse is.
The man can't tell you what his lyrics mean.

[SMiLE Brian]

Mike can tell you what his lyrics mean in "summer of love", he wants to bang women in a pool......

[rab2591]

Every print and electronic media source is subject to scrutiny and bias.

You say the story wasn't fact-checked - you know this for a fact? Uhhhh no you don't. I'd be hard pressed to believe the reporter (who again works for the most respected and well known and 2nd most circulated newspaper of all time) didn't call up Mike and/or fax the story over to give Mike the chance to deny it and tell his side of the story. That's how it's usually done when it comes to major newspapers. But great that you magically know this story wasn't fact-checked.

I still don't understand how Park's getting some trivial facts wrong on a few Twitter posts has anything to do with him recalling a story from 8 years prior.

[Empire Of Love]

Sheriff - In recent years JC Penney wanted to try to reverse some of their losses and decreasing hold in the retail sales and department store market, they had once been among the iconic American brands and a retail powerhouse for decades until the business in general began to change, leaving Penney's brand and image seemingly stuck in the past. The Penney's board hired an executive who had been with Apple previously to try re-energizing the company and reversing their fortunes which were on a downward trend.

This Apple exec steps in, and proceeds with his "vision" and plan for the Penney brand. It was all but a reboot, or a total revamping of everything from how the store interacted with customers, to the look, to the overall day-to-day ops of the stores.

This former Apple exec's "vision" ended up nearly destroying the Penney brand for good. The loyal customers they did have rejected the changes. They still looked for weekly sales and special buys via ads that the Apple exec thought were too old-fashioned for his modernization plan. They wanted some of the old JC Penney to still be recognizable, and when it changed too much too fast, those loyal customers bailed too. The new, more tuned into Apple style business operations customer demographic never warmed up to the "new" ways of JC Penney either. Thinking perhaps..."I don't want to buy a pair of Khakis like I just bought this iPhone at the Apple Store". Etc etc etc.

Point is, it was one of the biggest corporate flops of the past decade. The Apple exec ended up getting shown the door after he all but marched the company off a cliff. JC Penney is still recovering after realizing JC Penney is NOT and should NOT be The Apple Store for obvious reasons. You'll have to check how they're doing now, I stopped following it.

But the point also that I'm getting at is this:

If the board of directors for JC Penney brought this Apple exec in to develop and execute a business plan to help the business, if everyone from high level management to mid level managers to buyers to the individual store managers and floor workers put their trust in the former Apple exec's vision and plan but it ended up almost destroying the company...

Is it their fault too that it failed? Or is it more a case of the leader who was trusted to lead the company simply failing to do what he was charged with doing for a variety of reasons, which was as in all business to make that business better? In the case of JC Penney, it must have been a cold shot in the face to realize Penney customers are not the same as Apple devotees. But the "blame" if you will rests more on the guy who put the entire fortunes of the company on what turned out to be a flawed premise from the start.

The blame is shared, or should be shared. Somebody - the Board Of Directors? - had to look at the incoming Apple exec's idea/plan and vote on it at a corporate meeting. If the plan is approved via a vote, and that plan fails, then not only the person who developed the idea, but the people who gave it "the green light" must be held accountable. In regard to The Beach Boys, not only is the person who thought of the plan - in this discussion Mike Love - should be held accountable, but also the people who approved it - in this case the other band members.

As far as the mid level managers, buyers, and store managers are concerned...now you are talking about the execution of the plan. There is a little bit of apples and oranges at play here with the example you used. Obviously with the subordinates the degree of accountability is limited. They aren't the ones who agreed to the plan; they are merely carrying it out. Their roles in the success or failure of the plan is limited in scope. But I'm not criticizing The Beach Boys for the way they executed and carried out their plans (although there are many instances where I/one could). The Beach Boys accountability and blame lies with the approval or accepting of the plan in the first place. When Mike made "his sales pitch", they could've rolled their eyes, laughed at him, and kicked his ass out the door. And maybe they did that. But they also went along with it. They voted for it. And for that, they share the blame...except on this board.

EDIT: Cam beat me to it with his response, made with much less words...

One question: who was fired?  The guy from Apple or the board who went along with his ideas?  The answer to this question tells you who is considered most responsible.  I didn't know anything about the history/origin of S&S until I read this thread.  I think it was a mistake, but no worse than other mistakes made by other band members, and I don't see it as a reason to dislike ML.  Mike has given us a lot of reasons to dislike him and as much as I dislike Kokomo and S&S and SIP and Uncle Jessie and the current touring band, those are just reasons to dislike his taste, choices, apparent preference for commerce over art, etc.  His public actions, comments about Brian, and lawsuits are the reasons to dislike him as a person.  Those things may not compel some, but it should be clear to all why he is disliked by so many.

EoL

[filledeplage]

Every print and electronic media source is subject to scrutiny and bias.

You say the story wasn't fact-checked - you know this for a fact? Uhhhh no you don't. I'd be hard pressed to believe the reporter (who again works for the most respected and well known and 2nd most circulated newspaper of all time) didn't call up Mike and/or fax the story over to give Mike the chance to deny it and tell his side of the story. That's how it's usually done when it comes to major newspapers. But great that you magically know this story wasn't fact-checked.

I still don't understand how Park's getting some trivial facts wrong on a few Twitter posts has anything to do with him recalling a story from 8 years prior.

Those twitter posts are apparently there to educate the public.  And, they are false. Those are two I picked up on because I've done some research in both areas.

And, I don't put too much stock in the LA Times.  They (the media) are subject to error and manipulation like ABC news and George Stephanopoulos, being a Clinton operative and donor to the Clinton foundation and still working the political beat. Unbiased? Not. I think it is naive to think the media is all on the level.

Whatever the story is, doesn't affect me.  So I don't care.  I care how they perform when they are in front of me.  I care about their work enduring.  The rest is nonsense.

But, I am impressed that Parks can play a hundred year old accordion.  You want to talk about what he has accomplished, fine.  I like the movie Popeye which he was in. I'll talk about that.

Boo hoo on the rest.

[rab2591]

Every print and electronic media source is subject to scrutiny and bias.

You say the story wasn't fact-checked - you know this for a fact? Uhhhh no you don't. I'd be hard pressed to believe the reporter (who again works for the most respected and well known and 2nd most circulated newspaper of all time) didn't call up Mike and/or fax the story over to give Mike the chance to deny it and tell his side of the story. That's how it's usually done when it comes to major newspapers. But great that you magically know this story wasn't fact-checked.

I still don't understand how Park's getting some trivial facts wrong on a few Twitter posts has anything to do with him recalling a story from 8 years prior.

Those twitter posts are apparently there to educate the public.  And, they are false. Those are two I picked up on because I've done some research in both areas.

And, I don't put too much stock in the LA Times.  They (the media) are subject to error and manipulation like ABC news and George Stephanopoulos, being a Clinton operative and donor to the Clinton foundation and still working the political beat. Unbiased? Not. I think it is naive to think the media is all on the level.

Again, you still aren't telling me what some trivial wrong facts from a few Twitter posts in 2014+ has to do with a newspaper article in the New York Times from the year 2000. You keep monotonously reiterating this Twitter argument without making a clear connection between the two.

As for your outlook on certain newspapers and news outlets, I couldn't care less what your opinion is about them. I see that Mike has never publicly denied this story, nor was the NYTs forced to the redact the story. And it's a pretty popular story that has circulated numerous times on this very board that Mike supposedly reads while he eats his Wheaties in the morning. So again, I'm hard pressed to believe that this is all a fabrication.

Whatever the story is, doesn't affect me.  So I don't care.

Posts #379, #382, #386, and #393 refute that.

[filledeplage]

Every print and electronic media source is subject to scrutiny and bias.

You say the story wasn't fact-checked - you know this for a fact? Uhhhh no you don't. I'd be hard pressed to believe the reporter (who again works for the most respected and well known and 2nd most circulated newspaper of all time) didn't call up Mike and/or fax the story over to give Mike the chance to deny it and tell his side of the story. That's how it's usually done when it comes to major newspapers. But great that you magically know this story wasn't fact-checked.

I still don't understand how Park's getting some trivial facts wrong on a few Twitter posts has anything to do with him recalling a story from 8 years prior.

Those twitter posts are apparently there to educate the public.  And, they are false. Those are two I picked up on because I've done some research in both areas.

And, I don't put too much stock in the LA Times.  They (the media) are subject to error and manipulation like ABC news and George Stephanopoulos, being a Clinton operative and donor to the Clinton foundation and still working the political beat. Unbiased? Not. I think it is naive to think the media is all on the level.

Again, you still aren't telling me what some trivial wrong facts from a few Twitter posts in 2014+ has to do with a newspaper article in the New York Times from the year 2000. You keep monotonously reiterating this Twitter argument without making a clear connection between the two.

As for your outlook on certain newspapers and news outlets, I couldn't care less what your opinion is about them. I see that Mike has never publicly denied this story, nor was the NYTs forced to the redact the story. And it's a pretty popular story that has circulated numerous times on this very board that Mike supposedly reads while he eats his Wheaties in the morning. So again, I'm hard pressed to believe that this is all a fabrication.

Whatever the story is, doesn't affect me.  So I don't care.

Posts #379, #382, #386, and #393 refute that.

Rab-he made two boo-boos in less than a week. He was called out on the Abner Doubleday on his twitter. I'm won't be joining twitter to joust with him.  He can't even tell you what his lyrics mean. Fans wondered for decades, what do they mean. It is not unimportant.

Where is the cred of a lyricist who cannot explain his work? Writers can generally tell where their imagery is coming from or what inspired them. He can't.

That is three strikes in my book!

He is O-U-T!  

[alf wiedersehen]

So, who's winning?

[rab2591]

So if I have this correct: Van Dyke Parks tells the world’s second most circulated newspaper about a moment he lived through where Mike Love snubbed jet fuel costs. Only we can’t trust the newspaper because it is subject to manipulation such as a Clinton donor working for the political beat. And we can't trust Van Dyke because 14 years later Park’s makes an error in calling Abner Doubleday the inventor of baseball and George Sands a poetess. And because of this Van Dyke Park’s initial story falls apart. Gotcha.

You claim the story was never fact-checked. You have no basis for this claim.
You allude to the idea that Parks misremembering a few facts makes his recalling a moment he actually lived through questionable. This argument doesn't fly whatsoever.
You claim you don't care about this story. Your last 6 posts in this thread prove otherwise.

I say three strikes and you're out, filledeplage.

[Ang Jones]

Every print and electronic media source is subject to scrutiny and bias.

You say the story wasn't fact-checked - you know this for a fact? Uhhhh no you don't. I'd be hard pressed to believe the reporter (who again works for the most respected and well known and 2nd most circulated newspaper of all time) didn't call up Mike and/or fax the story over to give Mike the chance to deny it and tell his side of the story. That's how it's usually done when it comes to major newspapers. But great that you magically know this story wasn't fact-checked.

I still don't understand how Park's getting some trivial facts wrong on a few Twitter posts has anything to do with him recalling a story from 8 years prior.

Those twitter posts are apparently there to educate the public.  And, they are false. Those are two I picked up on because I've done some research in both areas.

And, I don't put too much stock in the LA Times.  They (the media) are subject to error and manipulation like ABC news and George Stephanopoulos, being a Clinton operative and donor to the Clinton foundation and still working the political beat. Unbiased? Not. I think it is naive to think the media is all on the level.

Again, you still aren't telling me what some trivial wrong facts from a few Twitter posts in 2014+ has to do with a newspaper article in the New York Times from the year 2000. You keep monotonously reiterating this Twitter argument without making a clear connection between the two.

As for your outlook on certain newspapers and news outlets, I couldn't care less what your opinion is about them. I see that Mike has never publicly denied this story, nor was the NYTs forced to the redact the story. And it's a pretty popular story that has circulated numerous times on this very board that Mike supposedly reads while he eats his Wheaties in the morning. So again, I'm hard pressed to believe that this is all a fabrication.

Whatever the story is, doesn't affect me.  So I don't care.

Posts #379, #382, #386, and #393 refute that.

Rab-he made two boo-boos in less than a week. He was called out on the Abner Doubleday on his twitter. I'm won't be joining twitter to joust with him.  He can't even tell you what his lyrics mean. Fans wondered for decades, what do they mean. It is not unimportant.

Where is the cred of a lyricist who cannot explain his work? Writers can generally tell where their imagery is coming from or what inspired them. He can't.

That is three strikes in my book!

He is O-U-T!  

Three strikes and VDP is out according to you. How many strikes does it take to get Mike out?

As for the Cabinessence lyric, sometimes we have to search for our own meanings, which doesn't mean the lyricist didn't include them. This from Wikipedia:

"Over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield
Over and over the thresher and hovers the wheatfield

"If the listener rearranges the last half of each line, they get "over and over the crow cries and hovers the wheatfield / over and over the thresher uncovers the cornfield", which makes them clearer. Parks penned additional lyrics to Cabinessence not heard on any official release, nor bootlegged. They are unknown to have ever been recorded during tracking sessions..."

[filledeplage]

So if I have this correct: Van Dyke Parks tells the world’s second most circulated newspaper about a moment he lived through where Mike Love snubbed jet fuel costs. Only we can’t trust the newspaper because it is subject to manipulation such as a Clinton donor working for the political beat. And we can't trust Van Dyke because 14 years later Park’s makes an error in calling Abner Doubleday the inventor of baseball and George Sands a poetess. And because of this Van Dyke Park’s initial story falls apart. Gotcha.

You claim the story was never fact-checked. You have no basis for this claim.
You allude to the idea that Parks misremembering a few facts makes his recalling a moment he actually lived through questionable. This argument doesn't fly whatsoever.
You claim you don't care about this story. Your last 6 posts in this thread prove otherwise.

I say three strikes and you're out, filledeplage.

Rab - it wasn't my story to fact check. Check Park's Twitter Feed for those days. He is pontificating.

And I have no reason to care about his jet fuel story. He had to get back anyway. He gave Mike a ride.

He wasn't "misremembering" facts. He was asserting facts-of-the-day.  

They should be facts and not fiction.