Love and Mercy and myth?

[bgas]

I wish our honored guests would let us know who they are...

I think I have a handle for who most are, but who is analog?

Clicking on his username and then on the "Show last posts" link should help you figure it out.

Ah yes. I always wondered what happened to him.

So WHY is he now an " Honored Guest" ?
Maybe not the place to address this, but is there a standard for being considered an Honored Guest?
 Maybe we should ALL be honord guests !

[southbay]

Seriously good questions after the discovery.   The distinction should really be held for the Despers, Stebbins, and Jardines, etc. who frequent here.

[Howie Edelson]

Absolutely.

I don't want to get into anyone's business and/or issues but the make-believe name and suped-up distinction reeks a tiny bit.
Is making someone a "Honored Guest" a unanimous distinction between the mods?
Is there a nomination process that takes place?
If there is, do the mods also vote on whether said guest can use a make-believe moniker or their birth name?

Zimmerman once said: "You can always come back, but you can’t come back all the way"
(turns out he was wrong.)

[Sam_BFC]

AGD used to be an honoured guest.

I wonder why Howie is not an honoured guest.

I think Ray prefers not to have such a title.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Apparently I'm an "AGD".

[bgas]

Apparently I'm an "AGD".

Probably.

even your picture makes that obvious; tho why the e is left out is troubling

[Douchepool]

As a former moderator, I can say that the Honored Guest thing was to denote posters who are of special stature in the Beach Boys organization (Desper, Boyd, Stebbins) or the fan base (Susan Lang).

I agreed then as I do now that it's often abused and some "Honored Guests" never should have become such.

[Jon Stebbins]

http://www.nationalreview.com/node/419838/print
Read this review posted by JCM in the Love and Mercy review thread and it set off some alarm bells for me.

Obviously this fellow knows the myths. The Beach Boys had ultimately little to do with the collapse of Smile. They certainly didn't force Brian to make Smiley Smiley either. In 1967 Brian was the boss, not Mike, not Carl, Brian. This movie could have set people like this critic straight, sad to hear it didn't.

Frankly the review makes me not want to see the film. I have been going back and forth about seeing this movie, and while I'm reading a lot of raves here, I don't know if six months from now it would be the same. All "new" albums or films have an excitment about them that die down after time has passed.

Full disclousre-bio pics bother me. I am very pedantic on Beach Boys history, and I'm wondering about this one. 1966-67 is half the focus and despite SO much being done on the period to the point of real overkill, I'm still waiting for it to be done correctly. Sounds like it's the myth again and not the truth.

From reading this thread and the attached links it sounds like (YAWN) Mike is the villain who wants to stop the progress.

Murry not liking God Only Knows is ridiculous as well. In 1966 it was more lifestyle than music that split him and Brian. If you get ahold of the few interviews he gave with Rolling Stone or NME the guy LOVED Pet Sounds and Good Vibrations. He hurt Brian many times, but he respected when the Beach Boys matured musically. 

Finally Brian didn't suddenly disappear after Smile. I guess it's such a good story that, photographs, films, recordings etc. nothing will break that myth. It's just sad and it makes light of what did happen to Brian over a longer period. I think the truth of him slowly going down is a much more poignant and moving story, but nobody seems to know it except those who really dig.

The Landy part may actually get me to watch. I'm not as invested in those years creatively so I don't get as hung up on that end of it. Melinda Wilson has got a bad rap from several insiders and Ray Lawlor (I hope I spellled your name right) set the record straight per what seems to be told in the movie. I have no doubt he is telling the truth, I simply hope that other things have been quietly said over the last 20 years is not true.

Again myths are hard to break, sounds like some were deeply moved by this film, but maybe I like Brian in a different way than most here. The story is interesting, but I would only be mildly interested if not for the music. I get upset because I love that 1967-72 music just as much as the 1961-66 and the artist(s) (if not always the person/people) who made it. Hey I don't know the people, I wish them well, but I don't know them. I just like seeing history told right. Though the recent books are finally getting it down with the correct perspective, in the world of filmdom the real Brian Wilson of Smiley Smile to Holland never existed. Or will I be pleasently surprised. Thoughts not on the film itself, but the content.

This post strikes me as concern trolling in a polite package. To say you may not see the movie is stunning to me. Anyone who would take the time to participate in a Beach Boys message board forum, but refrain from viewing this film out of "myth" concern is in my opinion missing what is really important. This film is incredibly responsible and thoughtful, and will enhance the ENTIRE legacy of BW and the Beach Boys despite only being able to focus on pieces of the story. I am as detail obsessed, and myth-busting focused as any BB's fan could possibly be. I've spent many years of my life on the front lines of this battle. This film didn't even raise an eyebrow regarding historical inaccuracy or imbalance for me. That was a HUGE surprise. Usually I shut down as soon as i see something that veers into the "wrong" category. But all the important notes were played with a virtuosity that left me truly touched and incredibly satisfied. I am completely blown away that this film found release in this form. Why? Because unlike so many things related to the Beach Boys, it is not shallow, it is not predictable, it is not embarrassing, it is not shoddy, it is not constipated, it is not creatively inept, and it is not dumbed down. Instead this is a raw, edgy, dark, but beautiful and hopeful portrayal of a particularly sensitive vein of their story. We are so very lucky that the right combination of people were allowed to create this film. It could have been awful. Instead it is as deeply moving as the music. Finally...a good thing has hit the mainstream, a deep thing has found an audience. Finally something tasteful and intelligent regarding the Beach Boys is out there. See it, relax on the non-essential stuff, and take in the sad beauty of a truly magnificent work.

Thanks for checking in. 

And thanks for Beach Boys FAQ.   I find myself referring to it constantly.  Any plans for a 2nd edition which would include C50, TWGMTR, NPP, and the Love and Mercy movie? 

I'd love to update the FAQ book. I'm busy with other work right now, but I think it's a valid suggestion for my publisher to consider this in the future. Thanks for the support!

[Jon Stebbins]

I'm surprised at how much universal praise this film is receiving on this board. I was truly disappointed. Not by silly details like Al's height or Brian's shirts, but by the overall portrayal of Brian as more of an idiot savant than a true genius. Much screen time is devoted to the complexity and duration of the Pet Sounds sessions, but by the time we get to SMiLE --aside from Surf's Up-- all we see is Brian running around the studio like a lunatic during Mrs. O'Leary's Cow and refusing to record in another studio after gauging the "vibes" of the room for 3 hours. The Hawaiian chant in Do You Like Worms is used to show his decline as a songwriter and the scene in the pool with the whole band and Van Dyke made me cringe. Even the Good Vibrations scene in the sandbox makes it seem like all Brian did was play a boogie-woogie riff on the piano and Mike was the one who heard its potential. It was also a big mistake to let Dano do any singing in my opinion, and his piano playing was very tentative during the God Only Knows scene.

I wanted so much to love this movie and after reading all the glowing reviews I was sure I would. My girlfriend couldn't make it on the night it was released and I couldn't wait, so I went thinking I'd be taking her to see it again. By the end of the film I was glad she didn't come, as I was actually embarrassed by much of it. Mainly the portrayal of Brian as I said, but also some of the dialogue and the feeling that I was watching a made-for-TV docudrama at times.

I realize I'm in the minority here, and I'm glad Brian's story is being told. I just wish they had told it a bit more accurately and done away with some of the "crazy Brian" myths rather than reinforcing them. I'm honestly surprised that Brian and Melinda approved of the script as is.


there... I said it.  

Had it occurred to you that maybe Brian was more like that than you cared to admit? Some scenes were uncomfortable for me too, but having read all the stories over the years, I was not surprised by any of it. So many people in Brian's world at that time were concerned for him in different ways. Something changed. You see it just in the way he was in the studio during Pet Sounds and how he ran the Smile sessions. I doubt that they would have Brian doing all these Q & A sessions or having he & Melinda doing interviews if his portrayal was way off the mark. I think it was more honest than we as fans care to admit.

Absolutely. You can see it in the GV studio footage. He's coming unhinged. There is always a counter to a manic period. There is always an exception to a withdrawn period. Films must paint in generalities because of the limitation of the format and the business that controls it, and also due to the limited attention span of the consumer that drives the market. That said, this film finds a way through all that in a noble and responsible way. In my opinion to expect more is unrealistic. However, this is a subjective thing and if someone has seen it and didn't like it that's their perspective, and their opinion. And that's cool. But to anyone who has not seen it, I would strongly suggest that you go...as there is ample evidence from many, many of us who know our insider sh*t, that this is not only a credible and well made film...but that it rises above the limitations and routine of the "bio-pic" and finds its way to a higher form that Brian's story deserves.

[Amanda Hart]

Stebbins is killing it with the posts in this thread.

It's a movie, two hours to tell a life story. It's not feasible to get all the details right and the driving story line is the point of view of a person who isn't the subject, which makes the storytelling even more complicated. That scene with Smiley and selling the catalog didn't get it right, but it fit in with the narrative and if that's really the only black eye on the fact face, I can live with it.

[puni puni]

Usually I shut down as soon as i see something that veers into the "wrong" category. But all the important notes were played with a virtuosity that left me truly touched and incredibly satisfied. I am completely blown away that this film found release in this form. Why? Because unlike so many things related to the Beach Boys, it is not shallow, it is not predictable, it is not embarrassing, it is not shoddy, it is not constipated, it is not creatively inept, and it is not dumbed down. Instead this is a raw, edgy, dark, but beautiful and hopeful portrayal of a particularly sensitive vein of their story. We are so very lucky that the right combination of people were allowed to create this film. It could have been awful. Instead it is as deeply moving as the music. Finally...a good thing has hit the mainstream, a deep thing has found an audience. Finally something tasteful and intelligent regarding the Beach Boys is out there.

Well said!

[rab2591]

It's a movie, two hours to tell a life story. It's not feasible to get all the details right and the driving story line is the point of view of a person who isn't the subject, which makes the storytelling even more complicated. That scene with Smiley and selling the catalog didn't get it right, but it fit in with the narrative and if that's really the only black eye on the fact face, I can live with it.

Couldn't agree more. I mean, if we're talking about accuracy, the timeline for Brian's first acid trip is all wonky as well, but it works perfectly for the story being told in Love and Mercy. Really, these small inaccuracies aren't hurting any legacy and they're certainly not re-writing the history books.

That scene where Brian is told the music rights were sold is one of the most heartbreaking scenes in that movie, one of the few moments where I shed a tear for Brian's character. Accuracy wasn't even on my mind at the moment because the scene is so damn powerful.

[Wirestone]

The movie is remarkably factually accurate. The one way in which events are seriously altered is in the compression of chronology. Given that it takes place (in movie terms) over two roughly year-long periods, that's understandable. A complete story needs to be told, so you have the events of 64-68 or so being jammed into the Dano section, and the events of 85-94 being abridged into the second.

When seen from this perspective, nearly all of the changes are understandable.

[Howie Edelson]

I keep thinking about the thing that Stebbins said about the fact that it was ALLOWED to come out as is -- without all the horrible Hollywood snags this thing could've gotten wrapped up in -- it survived to become good art. What are the odds?

I swear to God I walked into the theater expecting (hoping for at the very least) the likes of Backbeat.
I walked out and called Ed Roach, who thought I was bullsh itting him because I don't think he's ever heard me be so positive about ANYTHING before.
It's the best case scenario. A great underlining of Brian's story.

I remember watching it the first time and thinking, "My grandkids will see this and understand and feel this."

[sea of tunes]

The whole project seemed to have been blessed after so many false starts.  The right people were involved creatively and I think that made all the difference.

 

[ben plumbrook]

Well I guess I've stirred up some controversy again. First I don't need any status on here or anywhere. The laughably jealous comments, are the reason I had left, and will leave again after this post. It's been a long time since I was here and I was hoping it would be back to what it had been at one time. Back in the 2005-2010 era it was a great friendly cool place. Just nice people I felt no stress. I just hate to leave again but it was lousy to come back to this. I'm sorry as some of you may have liked what I used to do on here.

[Howie Edelson]

I don't think there's any controversy.
Just confusion why a dude with a fake name no one's heard of is suddenly an "Honored Guest."

[18thofMay]

http://www.nationalreview.com/node/419838/print
Read this review posted by JCM in the Love and Mercy review thread and it set off some alarm bells for me.

Obviously this fellow knows the myths. The Beach Boys had ultimately little to do with the collapse of Smile. They certainly didn't force Brian to make Smiley Smiley either. In 1967 Brian was the boss, not Mike, not Carl, Brian. This movie could have set people like this critic straight, sad to hear it didn't.

Frankly the review makes me not want to see the film. I have been going back and forth about seeing this movie, and while I'm reading a lot of raves here, I don't know if six months from now it would be the same. All "new" albums or films have an excitment about them that die down after time has passed.

Full disclousre-bio pics bother me. I am very pedantic on Beach Boys history, and I'm wondering about this one. 1966-67 is half the focus and despite SO much being done on the period to the point of real overkill, I'm still waiting for it to be done correctly. Sounds like it's the myth again and not the truth.

From reading this thread and the attached links it sounds like (YAWN) Mike is the villain who wants to stop the progress.

Murry not liking God Only Knows is ridiculous as well. In 1966 it was more lifestyle than music that split him and Brian. If you get ahold of the few interviews he gave with Rolling Stone or NME the guy LOVED Pet Sounds and Good Vibrations. He hurt Brian many times, but he respected when the Beach Boys matured musically. 

Finally Brian didn't suddenly disappear after Smile. I guess it's such a good story that, photographs, films, recordings etc. nothing will break that myth. It's just sad and it makes light of what did happen to Brian over a longer period. I think the truth of him slowly going down is a much more poignant and moving story, but nobody seems to know it except those who really dig.

The Landy part may actually get me to watch. I'm not as invested in those years creatively so I don't get as hung up on that end of it. Melinda Wilson has got a bad rap from several insiders and Ray Lawlor (I hope I spellled your name right) set the record straight per what seems to be told in the movie. I have no doubt he is telling the truth, I simply hope that other things have been quietly said over the last 20 years is not true.

Again myths are hard to break, sounds like some were deeply moved by this film, but maybe I like Brian in a different way than most here. The story is interesting, but I would only be mildly interested if not for the music. I get upset because I love that 1967-72 music just as much as the 1961-66 and the artist(s) (if not always the person/people) who made it. Hey I don't know the people, I wish them well, but I don't know them. I just like seeing history told right. Though the recent books are finally getting it down with the correct perspective, in the world of filmdom the real Brian Wilson of Smiley Smile to Holland never existed. Or will I be pleasently surprised. Thoughts not on the film itself, but the content.

Thanks for your contribution.

[guitarfool2002]

Either the honored guest status was given before my time, or without my knowledge, because I knew nothing of it. What I do know is that some posters have been asked if they wanted the "honored guest" status and declined. I'm not aware of anyone who specifically asked for it, unless that happened in the past. Whatever the case, only the moderators can activate that status. So whatever happened here, I have no knowledge of it. Not a big deal but I wanted to clarify that much.

[Jim V.]

Well I guess I've stirred up some controversy again. First I don't need any status on here or anywhere. The laughably jealous comments, are the reason I had left, and will leave again after this post. It's been a long time since I was here and I was hoping it would be back to what it had been at one time. Back in the 2005-2010 era it was a great friendly cool place. Just nice people I felt no stress. I just hate to leave again but it was lousy to come back to this. I'm sorry as some of you may have liked what I used to do on here.

Ugh, gag me.

Mike, I used to really like your posts. But it seems you are kinda full of yourself man. Laughably jealous? Who is posting jealous stuff? Howie Edelson? I sure as heck don't think so, and unlike you hasn't teased us with information for a "forthcoming book" for years. Instead, if he's got pertinent info, he's actually shared it. All I know, is you kinda used to be a good poster with some mostly level-headed opinions on things. Then you showed up on here writing insane posts and alluded to some odd kind of breakdown. And then kinda trashed the board. And then vanished. I mean, I think it'd be great if you'd like to rejoin our community and discuss BW and the BB with us. But you're gonna have to put your big boy pants on if you do. I'll tell you right now, I (and others) give AGD and Stebbins among others a pretty hard time if we feel they deserve it, but they still come back here because I think they value the Beach Boys fan community. If you don't because you wrote an Elvis FAQ that apparently did decently, and you're above it, then you know where the door is.

Also, if status doesn't matter, I say you relinquish the honored guest title. I personally think it should be reserved for insiders and not just any old poster. But I suppose that's between you and the mods.

And anyways, is your Beach Boys book ever coming out? Or has it been scrapped?

[ontor pertawst]

I think the best thing to do for maximum "controversy" is go seek treatment from Evan Landy. Sure to help with those Amazon rankings.

[Cam Mott]

I assume Mike didn't give himself "honored" status. Is that right?

[guitarfool2002]

Things to take away, perhaps. If readers think they're reading what seems to be a review of a film, at least the reviewer or commentator should make sure to have seen it before casting doubts on it. And if casting doubts, in this case Murry Wilson's opinions of Good Vibrations, make sure the facts are accurate. See my previous replies for that one.

This one read like a defense of certain things and people that were obviously being defended in spite of the film itself, which was apparently the intended topic of discussion. That kind of thing raises red flags right away, but on this board and some reviews and articles/interviews that have appeared in recent months, it seems to be OK. Launch a defense before the offense even takes the field, or in this case even if there is no game scheduled.

I'm genuinely interested to hear opinions and analysis of the film, it affected me a great deal, I consider it a work of art and a tremendous film (even as a film for film's sake), and I like to hear how it affected others as well.

To me this was a missed opportunity, and mounting a preemptive defensive play before seeing the film (or hearing the song-album in those prior cases) only stirs things up unnecessarily. It's too bad.

[guitarfool2002]

I assume Mike didn't give himself "honored" status. Is that right?

Either the honored guest status was given before my time, or without my knowledge, because I knew nothing of it. What I do know is that some posters have been asked if they wanted the "honored guest" status and declined. I'm not aware of anyone who specifically asked for it, unless that happened in the past. Whatever the case, only the moderators can activate that status. So whatever happened here, I have no knowledge of it. Not a big deal but I wanted to clarify that much.

[Howie Edelson]

I with you Guitarfool.

I just don’t see the motivation in somebody getting the guy who had an absolute and very public nervous breakdown on the board to come back under a false name, promote him to an exalted status, just so that he can throw dirt on such an obvious and well deserved home run for Brian and his team.

Oh, wait. . .

Oh.

Now I get it.