Great Albums that had poor sales

[harrisonjon]

Why did Sunflower and Love You bomb saleswise? Bad timing, loss of credit due to previous poor releases?

To what extent did Love You's poor sales contribute to the Wilson brothers' late 70s problems?

[KDS]

I know Sunflower bombed because, for the most part, The Beach Boys were not a really on the radar of many record buyers in 1970. 

While their music evolved, most people couldn't shake the image of those five guys in striped shirts singing about surfing and cars. 

Both Sunflower and Love You lacked a hit single that could be used to sell the album. 

And this is just my opinion, but I really don't think that Love You has mass appeal. 

[Please delete my account]

Also Love You's title and sleeve did it no favours. Nor the weird band photo or some of the song titles. And I guess a lot of people had bought 15 Big Ones and thought, "yeah... maybe I'll pass on the next one".

[Mike's Beard]

With all the hype I'd say many fans bought 15 Big Ones expecting a return to Brian's glory days, instead they got - well - 15 Big Ones. No doubt this put off many people from buying the next album. Plus, I wouldn't call Love You a great album by any stretch.

Sunflower was just a victim of many radio stations shunning it's singles.

[Lonely Summer]

With all the hype I'd say many fans bought 15 Big Ones expecting a return to Brian's glory days, instead they got - well - 15 Big Ones. No doubt this put off many people from buying the next album. Plus, I wouldn't call Love You a great album by any stretch.

Sunflower was just a victim of many radio stations shunning it's singles.

My thoughts exactly. When people bought 15BO and found out it wasn't Summer Days and Summer Nights Part 2, they were disappointed, and that ended their interest in new music from the guys. Love You was just too bizarre to appeal to the sun, sand and surf audience they had in the mid 70's. If Sunflower had been the album they came out with following the Endless Summer/Spirit of America success, they may have kept the new fans won over by the compilations.

[Nicko1234]

Yeah I think even outside their homeland (in places where the group weren`t so uncool), the lack hit singles hurt the Sunflower album. 20/20 reached number 3 in the U.K. with Sunflower reaching only 29 for example. I know that Cottonfields was included but this had been issued as a single months before...

Love You is completely uncommercial and was never going to be a mainstream hit. And I agree that many people had got their fingers burned with the awful 15 Big Ones.

[guitarfool2002]

Yet the irony of it is that the band's albums 15 Big Ones and Love You may not have been the commercial blockbusters the band hoped for, the years 1976 and 1977 were among the most lucrative financially that the band had ever enjoyed after 1966, and beyond. They were flying around in two separate private leased jets while these albums performed as stagnant as they did on the charts. "Brian Is Back" for all the publicity shuck and ballyhoo that it was actually translated into serious cash and clout for the band despite the actual records they were touring behind and performing on stage in those years. They actually had the clout to get a multi-million-dollar deal from CBS which included a million dollar per album guarantee...plus what could have been one of the highest amounts requested and paid for a live act to perform.

The contradiction is almost surreal.

[Nicko1234]

Yet the irony of it is that the band's albums 15 Big Ones and Love You may not have been the commercial blockbusters the band hoped for, the years 1976 and 1977 were among the most lucrative financially that the band had ever enjoyed after 1966, and beyond. They were flying around in two separate private leased jets while these albums performed as stagnant as they did on the charts. "Brian Is Back" for all the publicity shuck and ballyhoo that it was actually translated into serious cash and clout for the band despite the actual records they were touring behind and performing on stage in those years. They actually had the clout to get a multi-million-dollar deal from CBS which included a million dollar per album guarantee...plus what could have been one of the highest amounts requested and paid for a live act to perform.

The contradiction is almost surreal.

15 Big Ones was pretty big wasn`t it? Top ten and half a year on the charts. Considering how crappy it was, I`m not sure they could have expected anything better.

[guitarfool2002]

That's what I'm saying, the contradiction of having the albums of note being 15 BO and Love You during the two years where the band arguably had as much if not more clout than anytime since the heyday of the 60's success is almost staggering. There was a comment about fans being "burned" and turned off to new music from the band after 15 BO, yet CBS saw fit to give them what was a massive amount of money to both sign and produce new music...a million per album atop a 2 mil signing bonus and all kinds of perks...did CBS think fans were turned off to buying new Beach Boys songs when they offered such a deal?

[Nicko1234]

That's what I'm saying, the contradiction of having the albums of note being 15 BO and Love You during the two years where the band arguably had as much if not more clout than anytime since the heyday of the 60's success is almost staggering. There was a comment about fans being "burned" and turned off to new music from the band after 15 BO, yet CBS saw fit to give them what was a massive amount of money to both sign and produce new music...a million per album atop a 2 mil signing bonus and all kinds of perks...did CBS think fans were turned off to buying new Beach Boys songs when they offered such a deal?

No. they got f***ed as they admitted.

[guitarfool2002]

That's what I'm saying, the contradiction of having the albums of note being 15 BO and Love You during the two years where the band arguably had as much if not more clout than anytime since the heyday of the 60's success is almost staggering. There was a comment about fans being "burned" and turned off to new music from the band after 15 BO, yet CBS saw fit to give them what was a massive amount of money to both sign and produce new music...a million per album atop a 2 mil signing bonus and all kinds of perks...did CBS think fans were turned off to buying new Beach Boys songs when they offered such a deal?

No. they got f***ed as they admitted.

That comment was CBS' Walter Yetnikoff after flying in to check on the recordings for what would eventually turn into LA Light Album before Bruce came on board. The deal survived beyond that specific incident. But overall, yeah CBS got f***ed in retrospect...

[Mike's Beard]

My understanding of the ins and outs of the music biz is patchy at best but my guess is if CBS funded the BBs tours once signed, wouldn't they get a nice slice of the Box Office from a band still pulling in punters by the boatload? That may have been a bigger motivation than getting them back in the charts.

[guitarfool2002]

They got almost a million dollar per album deal from CBS, for the albums they recorded and delivered to CBS, simple as that. A million per album, massive for 1977. They got 2 million plus bonuses and perks as a signing bonus on top of that. If anything, that could have been the acknowledgement that they were a live entity with larger appeal, but the label doesn't invest a million per album - unheard - if it thinks the band is going to skate by on recordings and focus all the meat and potatoes on live shows.

The record label wants to sell records, period. They don't throw a cool million at a band in 1976-77 if they didn't think said band would end up selling records for said label. Which is why I'll repeat again, CBS actually did get f***ed beyond the context where Yetnikoff said that famous phrase, because the music didn't sell. And the band during and immediately after 1977-78 came close to imploding completely on more than one occasion.

[Steve Latshaw]

I think Love You could have had all the promotion in the world and it wouldn't have sold anything.  There's nothing on that album that works as a single in present form.  And nothing on it that even remotely sounds like what we were hearing on the radio in the Spring of 1977.  Carl Wilson, from what I understand, did an amazing job as mixdown producer bringing that album to life from Brian's initial flat mixes.  But even so, the vocals were too rough and the arrangements too sparse to work on radio.  A beefed up single version of Roller Skating Child with more polished vocals and additional instrumentation (a bass guitar, for one) might have had a shot.

Classic artistic album but abject failure as a commercial record.

[SBonilla]

My understanding of the ins and outs of the music biz is patchy at best but my guess is if CBS funded the BBs tours once signed, wouldn't they get a nice slice of the Box Office from a band still pulling in punters by the boatload? That may have been a bigger motivation than getting them back in the charts.

You're talking about 'tour support.' Did the Beach Boys get tour support from CBS? I don't know, but  money advanced (for recording, independent promotion, marketing and publicity, tour support, etc.) to the artist by the record company was recoupable from record sales. Unless, there was 'cross collateralization' written into the recording contract. This is where the record company could recoup advances not only from record sales but also from your songwriting royalties.

These days it's a different game. Artists (especially new ones) are giving away more than just recording and publishing rights. If you are signed to a big media company you are sharing your touring and merchandising rights as well.

[Steve Latshaw]

<<Did the Beach Boys get tour support from CBS?>>

I think it went up and down, at least according to Ian and John's concert book.  According to that one, barely a month after LA was released in March, CBS pulled tour support when it was apparent the album wasn't selling as well as hoped.  Band members and mixer Tom Murphy were let go.  I think Carli, Sterling and Charles Lloyd were all out by summer, right?  I remember by the time I saw them a second time that year (8/19/79 - Edwardsville, IL) they were fairly well stripped down.

[Steve Latshaw]

At Nassau Coliseum on May 14th, 1979, Bruce dedicates "I Get Around" to CBS Records, I'm sure a nice shout-out to company execs listening to the FM radio broadcast.

[Lonely Summer]

So the Beach Boys sign with CBS, and when their commitments to Reprise are over, they record LA and KTSA...and then nothing for 5 years. Was there pressure from the label for the band to get back into studio during those years? Or were they happy to release Carl solo albums and comps like Ten Years of Harmony?

[Custom Machine]

...  A beefed up single version of Roller Skating Child with more polished vocals and additional instrumentation (a bass guitar, for one) might have had a shot. ...

And change the title and lyrics to "Roller Skating Beauty" so it wouldn't be so damn embarrassing to listen to.

[Steve Latshaw]

<<So the Beach Boys sign with CBS, and when their commitments to Reprise are over, they record LA and KTSA...and then nothing for 5 years. Was there pressure from the label for the band to get back into studio during those years? Or were they happy to release Carl solo albums and comps like Ten Years of Harmony>>

I am sure there was constant pressure from the label.  CBS was reportedly not happy about having to release TEN YEARS OF HARMONY.  And they didn't have any interest in cover songs, which is why the live "Runaway" from 1982 and the first version of "California Dreamin" never went out as singles.  They'd paid for NEW Beach Boys content with heavy Brian Wilson involvement and weren't getting it.  BEACH BOYS '85 grew out of a planned 1983 album featuring outside producers taking their turn cutting Beach Boys albums.  Lindsay Buckingham was on board, but supposedly backed out because CBS vetoed his request to produce the entire album himself (which would not have been a bad thing, in my view).  I think CBS felt pretty well screwed by the Beach Boys deal.  They'd made a similar deal with Paul McCartney, at the same time, which also ended after six years and, in his case, five albums (Back to the Egg, McCartney II, Tug of Wat, Pipes of Peace and Give My Regards to Broadstreet).