The Four Seasons

[Lee Marshall]

True Jon...but...Top 50/Top 40 radio and AM still ran the show through the 60s and into the 70s...AND singles were still the legitimate vehicle with which to measure success.  Heading into the mid 70s to the later 70s  when LP sales became the benchmark and when FM overtook AM in the radio ratings your point 'becomes' even more sharply focussed and important.  Still, that said, you do make an accurate assessment of the siutation as it transitioned out of the 60s and then through the 70s leaving the 4 Seasons completely behind...and, unfortunately to some extent, the Beach Boys as well.  Why?  The Boys lost their ongoing highly successful and constant presence on AM radio and on the singles charts.  As a result?  Endless Summer became an endless bummer for forward thinking and creativity and old 60s successes argued rather loudly and successfully for more time on stage.

Genuine Imitation Life Gazette...was pretty much a flop in terms of successes.  I must say though that I still really, REALLY like their Big Girls Don't Cry album...52 years later.

[urbanite]

I drove out to Palm Spings a couple of weeks ago on the 10 Freeway.  Near PS there was a billboard for a Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons concert.  I am impressed.   Isn't Franki Valli almost 80?

[Lee Marshall]

81 this year I believe.  I have a picture here somewhere...Oh...here it is. >

[TMinthePM]

Listening to the opening bars of Ragdoll - sounds like Be My Baby/Don't Worry Baby

[Jim Rockford]

Listening to the opening bars of Ragdoll - sounds like Be My Baby/Don't Worry Baby

Easily one of my favorite music moments ever. Just amazing.

[Jim Murphy]

And like "Don't Worry Baby" and "Be My Baby," I could listen to "Rag Doll" about 50 times in a row. Never get tired of hearing "Rag Doll" by the great, great Bob Gaudio and Bob Crewe.  Inspired when Gaudio, while in his car, encountered a street urchin at the end of an exit ramp on NYC''s West Side Highway.

[TMinthePM]

Only just discovered "Cry Myself To Sleep." Probably the saddest song I've ever heard.

It just amazes me how much music, really great popular music, was made back in the 60's. I was there for the whole ride and thought I pretty much knew it all, but in recent years have discovered I'd only skimmed the surface.

But, to keep this all aligned with the purpose of this board, what do you all think is the saddest song ever recorded by the Beach Boys?

[RubberSoul13]

Only just discovered "Cry Myself To Sleep." Probably the saddest song I've ever heard.

It just amazes me how much music, really great popular music, was made back in the 60's. I was there for the whole ride and thought I pretty much knew it all, but in recent years have discovered I'd only skimmed the surface.

But, to keep this all aligned with the purpose of this board, what do you all think is the saddest song ever recorded by the Beach Boys?

Caroline, No......no if ands or buts!

[PS]

Only just discovered "Cry Myself To Sleep." Probably the saddest song I've ever heard.

It just amazes me how much music, really great popular music, was made back in the 60's. I was there for the whole ride and thought I pretty much knew it all, but in recent years have discovered I'd only skimmed the surface.

But, to keep this all aligned with the purpose of this board, what do you all think is the saddest song ever recorded by the Beach Boys?

Caroline, No......no if ands or buts!

Romantically sad: Let the Wind Blow
Existentially sad: 'Til I Die
Musically sad: The Lonely Sea

[TMinthePM]

Kiss Me Baby

[TMinthePM]

With my desk cleared, students busily preparing to clear out for New Year Festivities (we're in Nanjing), I have some time this afternoon for idle contemplation.

On the topic of falsetto styles I think Frankie might be described as a Tomcat, which suits the grittiness of New York. Whereas Brian's style is more, what, Angelic?

[ArchStanton]

I wonder what was worse, dealing with the mafia or dealing with Murry?

Well, they were able to fire Murry. . .apparently, in the case of the Four Seasons, the Mafia can fire you! Or fire upon you, or set you on fire, or. . .

[JK]

Apparently the Beach Boys made a dig at the Seasons on "Surfer's Rule" which I have never noticed. They sing "Four Seasons you'd better believe it" at the end of the song while Brian does the falsetto to "Walk Like a Man". Interesting.

Another great "Four Seasons" moment is in the chorus of "Finders Keepers". Mike's bass sounds like Nick Massi and the "lie" of the chords when the Boys sing the title is straight out of "Big Girls Don't Cry".   

[Sound of Free]

My sister and brother-in-law saw Frankie with the current incarnation of Four Seasons about 3 or 4 years and said while his voice had obviously lost something, he still was very good.

I never saw the movie Jersey Boys but saw it on stage three times and loved it.

Rag Doll, Bye Bye Baby, Beggin', Big Girls Don't Cry and Everybody Knows My Name are among my favorites, but maybe my favorite is this very obscure one from 1972 that apparently was a hit in England but never released as a single in America.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTyC7qY41Bo

[Lonely Summer]

My dad had the Seasons Gold Vault of Hits albums, so I grew up listening to them. Oddly, our local library also had a copy of their folk album, Born to Wander. I find it interesting that their 70's comeback was with a completely different lineup, and wonder how original fans felt about that. Can you imagine 15 Big Ones being Mike Love and a bunch of new guys?

[Rocky Raccoon]

My dad had the Seasons Gold Vault of Hits albums, so I grew up listening to them. Oddly, our local library also had a copy of their folk album, Born to Wander. I find it interesting that their 70's comeback was with a completely different lineup, and wonder how original fans felt about that. Can you imagine 15 Big Ones being Mike Love and a bunch of new guys?

Well, Bob Gaudio was still the main songwriter and producer so the creative aspect hadn't changed.  The last couple of Four Seasons albums didn't even have an exact lineup of four guys, just them being a collaboration between Valli and Gaudio made them Four Seasons albums.  The cover of the Streetfighter album shows six people behind Valli.  By a certain point, Four Seasons became just a name and didn't actually apply to the members of the group.  Now, Frankie Valli tours with a huge band as Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons though the Four Seasons aren't members of the band but four young anonymous backup singers/dancers behind Valli so the Four Seasons name has taken on yet another different meaning.

[Vernon Surfer]

I saw them a couple of years ago in Vancouver.  Vallie and 4 young back up singers that were not born when they had their first hit. Good show though but now I read that Vallie is using back up tracking falsetto.

[Micha]

But, to keep this all aligned with the purpose of this board, what do you all think is the saddest song ever recorded by the Beach Boys?

How about making that a thread of it's own? Might get more answers than in this one.

[Autotune]

I saw them a couple of years ago in Vancouver.  Vallie and 4 young back up singers that were not born when they had their first hit. Good show though but now I read that Vallie is using back up tracking falsetto.

There's a number of cool Four Seasons threads on this board. They are great, and I recall a fairly recent interview of Brian's where he expresses admiration for their music and production. I remember (perhaps during the alledged autotune debate during C50) a poster compared recent live performances of Valli's --seemingly lip-synched-- and they didn't match. Not that he isn't lip-synching at all, but it makes you wonder.

[Lonely Summer]

My dad had the Seasons Gold Vault of Hits albums, so I grew up listening to them. Oddly, our local library also had a copy of their folk album, Born to Wander. I find it interesting that their 70's comeback was with a completely different lineup, and wonder how original fans felt about that. Can you imagine 15 Big Ones being Mike Love and a bunch of new guys?

Well, Bob Gaudio was still the main songwriter and producer so the creative aspect hadn't changed.  The last couple of Four Seasons albums didn't even have an exact lineup of four guys, just them being a collaboration between Valli and Gaudio made them Four Seasons albums.  The cover of the Streetfighter album shows six people behind Valli.  By a certain point, Four Seasons became just a name and didn't actually apply to the members of the group.  Now, Frankie Valli tours with a huge band as Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons though the Four Seasons aren't members of the band but four young anonymous backup singers/dancers behind Valli so the Four Seasons name has taken on yet another different meaning.

The current Four Seasons is similar to the current Beach Boys - the lead singer with a bunch of hired hands. It looks strange to me, though, to see Frankie onstage with the Seasons being a bunch of 20-somethings. At least Mike's band appears to have a little more seasoning (no pun intended) in them.

[Lee Marshall]

The BIG difference though is Frankie sang lead and was the totally recognizable  LEAD sound of almost every 4 Seasons song.   Hits and album tracks.   Mike sang lead over the long haul on what?  Maybe 1/3-40% of all of the BB's songs?  That is a significant difference.

If you didn't really like 'The Sound of Frankie Valli' you didn't like the 4 Seasons.  How could you?   If Mike wasn't your favourite singer with the Boys...there were other options...and the surrounding voices, arrangements, harmonies and sharing of lead duties often in just ONE song provided enough variety to mask some of the 'sound' you didn't perhaps care for...as much.  Mike was the predominant up-front sound early on.  THAT changed, and pretty quickly, or the Beach Boys might never have made it out of 1965.  Truly.  HE was the surf and car sound...along with Brian.  Brian provided the 'ying'.  Mike...all of the 'yang'.

Carl to a large and expanding degree and Denny and Al to a lesser degree along with some quality leads from Brian and even Bruce provided a nicely rounded out presentation.  Frankie?  Well Frankie was...and is the 4 Seasons. ..all 4 of 'em.   I can't think of another voice which ever stood out above and beyond the mix until Who Loves You and Oh What a Night [Dec. '63].  Oh...and "why don't you..." but that was just a pedestrian bass voice.   Even *I* could do THAT.   [Sorry Nick Massi]

[Autotune]

BBs biggest tribute to the Seasons = the song Wendy.

Brian went as far as saying he was trying to go their style (marching drum, etc.). Even Brian's vocal sounds more in-your-face (like Frankie's) than he used to.

[The 4th Wilson Bro.]

Gosh you are so helpful.I should have you screen all my posts .

I'm sure it wasn't personal.  You've just got to realize how maddening these things can be to anyone who understands punctuation and grammar.

Oh, and you've got two punctuation errors in that two-sentence post.  Three, actually.

[Shark]

Does anyone know how "East Meets West" came to be?  Obviously it was written by the Seasons camp, but just looking for some background if anyone knows. 

And Valli does use a backing vocal track when he performs live.  The guy is over 80.  He still sings live but for some of those high parts, it is pre-recorded.  The show is still very good.  If you are a fan and haven't seen him, who knows how much longer he is going to continue to perform.

[Ron]

Of course Frankie Valli's falsetto easily matched Brian Wilson's,

Hold on there sparky. 

One thing I always admired about the Four Seasons (we've talked about it on here before) is the damn drums!  Listen to any of their songs and listen how great the drums are recorded and played.  I think several different people played them so it was probably more of a stylistic choice by the producer than actual technique by the drummer...