Stamos accused…

[Andrew G. Doe]

I have no doubt whatsoever that John Stamos is a lovely guy. What he did for the guy in the wheelchair, and Ethan, proves that to me. I just wish he wasn't up there, trying too hard to be Dennis.

[Ang Jones]

I know next to nothing about John Stamos. No doubt he is a fan, maybe he is a nice guy. He is good looking. None of these things make him Dennis Wilson. There are quite a few Dennis wannabes out there. Real Dennis fans want to hear Dennis, not try to be Dennis. And I am a female fan.

[Micha]

I don't know why one would want to be Dennis Wilson. In an effort to cope with his emotional pains, he drank and drugged himself to death (in a way). Doesn't sound like a lot of fun. If I had to choose between being Dennis Wilson and being John Stamos, I'd choose being John Stamos.

I've never watched his TV show so often mentioned on this board, so I have next to no opinion on him.

[MarcellaHasDirtyFeet]

Was Dennis ever as considerate of special needs fans as John Stamos is?

[Pretty Funky]

It was a different time but I think he would have if he was still alive today. So many people have said he would give the shirt off his back to someone who needed it shows just the kind of person he was IMO.

[Ang Jones]

Was Dennis ever as considerate of special needs fans as John Stamos is?

I've seen pictures of Dennis with special needs fans - don't know how big a part of his life this was or how it compares to what John Stamos has done but I've heard he was kind to people. But anyway, I'm not criticising John Stamos as a human being  - that isn't the subject of this thread.

[Lowbacca]

It was a different time but I think he would have if he was still alive today. So many people have said he would give the shirt off his back to someone who needed it shows just the kind of person he was IMO.

I love that quote from Stebbins or Roach (can't remember ) where he says that Dennis would have given the shirt off his back - if he had worn one.

[...] But anyway, I'm not criticising John Stamos as a human being  - that isn't the subject of this thread.

Exactly.

[drbeachboy]

I have no doubt whatsoever that John Stamos is a lovely guy. What he did for the guy in the wheelchair, and Ethan, proves that to me. I just wish he wasn't up there, trying too hard to be Dennis.

Not once have I ever seen him like that. He doesn't have to be Dennis. He does just fine being John Stamos.

[Jim V.]

I have no doubt whatsoever that John Stamos is a lovely guy. What he did for the guy in the wheelchair, and Ethan, proves that to me. I just wish he wasn't up there, trying too hard to be Dennis.

Gosh....THANK YOU ANDREW! And this is simply it. I agree. I'm sure Stamos is awesome. I've never really doubted it. But I don't think it means I'm a heartless asshole just because I don't want him on the stage with ANY incarnation of my favorite group. Sorry. I don't think that means I don't respect what he has done for the less fortunate. I think it's awesome what he's done. But that doesn't mean that I think he should be strutting across The Beach Boys stage. Sorry.

[Nicko1234]

I`ve no idea whether Stamos wants to be Dennis Wilson or not but his manner on stage and even his style of drumming seems very different. I can understand people thinking he is too much on Be True to Your School (arguably the nadir of a M&B show) but the same could be said to some extent for Kowalski who was also given a drum solo for this song.

Would Dennis want to punch Stamos if he were alive today? A fun who covered one of his songs and brought it to millions of people... If he did want to punch him then that wouldn`t say much for Dennis really.

I think the clips from recent M&B shows that are in other threads show how the audience feels anyway. They clearly want Stamos there by a landslide margin...

[Sheriff John Stone]

I think John Stamos is probably a good guy. I also think he's a passable singer and musician. 99% of the fans don't even notice his technical shortcomings anyway. But what I really like about John Stamos is that he's a huge Beach Boys' fan and not many celebrities can/will claim that. Come on, admit it. We like when the Beach Boys merely get mentioned by celebrities, musicians, politicians, sports figures, or....anybody! And, I think John Stamos has personally and individually attracted thousands (millions?) of fans to The Beach Boys and specifically Dennis Wilson over the last 30 years. I don't take that lightly. I can't think of a single person outside The Beach Boys who has come close to achieving that. Not even close.

But none of that is the point as it relates to this thread or the multiple "Stamos threads" that have and will appear on this message board. Even though I like Stamos, I DO ADMIT that some of his onstage behavior rubs me the wrong way. That's not only because it's not my personal style, but it's mainly because it clashes with The Beach Boys' onstage style. The Beach Boys are boring on stage, and Stamos, through his body language, unfortunately accentuates that. But that's not the point either!

The point is that people on this board relate John Stamos with Mike Love and people on this board don't like Mike Love. In the same vein, John Stamos is not endorsed by Brian Wilson, so consequently, John Stamos will not be endorsed by people on this board. Do you think this 14 page thread is ongoing because of interest in John Stamos? Of course not. Somewhere, underneath all of the rhetoric, is just another Mike Love vs. Brian Wilson argument. I am certain that if Brian Wilson uttered just one word of praise toward John Stamos, this thread wouldn't exist. I've seen the legendary "Hotel Tape", but we really don't know what Brian personally thinks of John Stamos. I don't think I've ever seen/heard Brian mention his name. But I'll go even one step further. If Brian did "like" John Stamos, I can envision a thread actually IN PRAISE OF Stamos. But, Brian hasn't done that, so Stamos is not accepted or recognized for his achievements by many people on this board. Sorry Mike, not on this board.

[filledeplage]

I have no doubt whatsoever that John Stamos is a lovely guy. What he did for the guy in the wheelchair, and Ethan, proves that to me. I just wish he wasn't up there, trying too hard to be Dennis.

Andrew -  I think you sort of narrowed the issue.  And the essence of what I consider to be part of the problem.  I think there is a mis-perception that Stamos is "trying too hard to be Dennis."  I do not think he is.  Stamos is and has been giving "tribute" to Dennis' work, whether advancing it via his TV series show work or on daytime or late night TV.

First, more than one in "eternal syndication and distribution," in 20+ languages.  Second, it is sort of late for all this "purism" because some the original vocalists are among the "dearly departed." The Beach Boys and Brian, as a solo have given "tribute" by covering Dennis' (and Carl's work.)

At best, for those who were born post-1983, and who never saw Dennis live, with his ups and downs, are forming opinions based on second hand information, and who may not have ever see Dennis live.  My sense is that Stamos is and has been taking the most positive aspects and helping to memorialize them. Seriously, if he has had a "look" it is more "Elvis-like," than Dennis Wilson.  His Full House show episodes support that.  

And just for the heck of it, I just input Beach Boys in a YouTube search and one song had 7 million hits.  That would be Kokomo.  And John Stamos face is the one captured on the congas.  I'm a fan for nearly 50 years and it doesn't offend me in the least. His support and media exposure to my favorite band helped resurrect their work for, by now, several generations of people.  I have three children who range from 26 to 33, and despite being brainwashed by BB music, now "access their music" more because of John Stamos, than "the originals." And I don't care "how they listen and appreciate" - only that "they do."

When I see the Touring Band, my kids ask if I saw John Stamos.  Not Mike, Bruce, Scott, John (Cowsill) Tim, Christian, Foskett or Randell.  They don't know who the Cowsills are, largely because that they are part of the 1960's and 1970's experience. That is generational, and probably appropriate.  Who they do know - The Stones, The Beatles, and rap, hip hop and what I call contemporary country music.  They found The Fat Boys and Beach Boys video hilarious.

[ESQ Editor]

I have no doubt whatsoever that John Stamos is a lovely guy. What he did for the guy in the wheelchair, and Ethan, proves that to me. I just wish he wasn't up there, trying too hard to be Dennis.

That's like saying, "Jeff Foskett is trying to hard to be Carl Wilson."     Don't we know better than to make these types of comparisons?

From ALL the concert footage I have seen, etc., I have never seen John Stamos TRYING to be anyone (other than himself), which is where I think most of us are having a problem.  As I mentioned in my first post, he seems a bit uncomfortable when he sings "Forever" when he is front and center…and I believe it is because he knows there will NEVER be a day when he fills the void left by Dennis.  He told me as much.  Stamos LOVES THE BEACH BOYS.

AGD, the misconceptions are here:
•  he plays the drums
•  he sings "Forever" on stage
•  he's the one the girls are screaming for

These 3 things are the only thing John Stamos and Dennis Wilson have in common.  Period.  He didn't write "Forever," his drumming style is not the same either. 

If anyone is "filling" in on drums "for Dennis" (on stage), then it is John COWSILL…who (as far as I'm concerned) brings a Dennis Wilson-style primitive / animalistic punch to every show.  Cowsill's raw thumping reminds me a lot of Dennis (in style).  Just close your eyes (if you go) to an upcoming show.  If Stamos is there, you won't even know it.   
 
It seems to me that the Stamos issue is more about what those on the outside perceive versus the reality of what is really happening on stage. 

There is nothing that can fill the void (not even video tributes) for Dennis and Carl Wilson.  The videos — at the very least — provide the appropriate reminder of their contributions to the group's catalogue and that their spirit endures in the music.

I think EVERYONE here would be shocked if you had a chance to sit down with John Stamos to discuss the Beach Boys catalogue, and got to pick his brain about his love for the group's music (favorite album, etc.).  Like all of us, it's deep.

[Cam Mott]

I bet if we asked him he would feel he is honoring the spirit of Dennis. Mileage may vary as to whether he was successful if he were.

[ESQ Editor]

I bet if we asked him he would feel he is honoring the spirit of Dennis. Mileage may vary as to whether he was successful if he were.

He would probably be uncomfortable with this statement.  Stamos loves the song "Forever."  He hopes he is doing justice to the song when he performs it…that's about it.

[Wirestone]

Stamos may or may not be a nice guy. It's great to hear that he's good to fans.

But that doesn't affect the central point. He is a distraction and has no place onstage.

Just like the cheerleaders.

I have said it before and will say it again -- any goodwill he generates among some part of the public is outweighed by the continuing damage he does  to the brand.

I can't tell you the number of people who have made cracks about Stamos when I mention the Beach Boys. They don't talk about the mastery of Pet Sounds or the artistry if Good Vibrations or the fractured whimsy of Love You. They make jokes about a 50-year-old sitcom actor.

It's great that he's a fan. It's great he wants to bring people to the music. But that doesn't mean you crash the show and play rock star yourself. Even if the band asks you.

It's not wish fulfillment. It's destroying something he purports to love.

If anyone here ever wonders why we don't get cool archival releases, if anyone here ever wonders why we don't get more respect among music fans, if anyone ever wonders why you can't going to a music store and buy actual Beach Boys albums, if anyone wonders why Mike has the terrible reputation he does -- just look at Stamos.

He is absolutely emblematic of a band that does not take itself or its music or its fans or its legacy at all seriously. And if the band doesn't care about these things, other folks won't either.

[filledeplage]

That is not your call.

[Lowbacca]

[...]

If anyone here ever wonders why we don't get cool archival releases, if anyone here ever wonders why we don't get more respect among music fans, if anyone ever wonders why you can't going to a music store and buy actual Beach Boys albums, if anyone wonders why Mike has the terrible reputation he does -- just look at Stamos.

He is absolutely emblematic of a band that does not take itself or its music or its fans or its legacy at all seriously. And if the band doesn't care about these things, other folks won't either.

Right.

[drbeachboy]

I will say this again, as I have said many many times before in here, he will not, nor does he presently pollute the brand. The Beach Boys will not be remembered for concerts, least the ones that are not recorded or released in the catalog. They will be remembered for all of their recorded output, especially for the ones that they are currently remembered for; their early to mid-60s albums. For everyone like you who has a problem with Stamos on stage, their is least one if not more who could give two-shits whether he is there or not. This place has an inflated view what will and will not affect their legacy. Stamos on stage is a blip compared to all of the other things they will be judged on. If nothing else, the fracture that occurred after Carl's death will hold more weight against them than anything Stamos has done performing with them.

[Mike's Beard]

Mike seems to enjoy having him around so that's all it comes down to really.

[ESQ Editor]

I will say this again, as I have said many many times before in here, he will not, nor does he presently pollute the brand. The Beach Boys will not be remembered for concerts, least the ones that are not recorded or released in the catalog. They will be remembered for all of their recorded output, especially for the ones that they are currently remembered for; their early to mid-60s albums. For everyone like you who has a problem with Stamos on stage, their is least one if not more who could give two-shits whether he is there or not. This place has an inflated view what will and will not affect their legacy. Stamos on stage is a blip compared to all of the other things they will be judged on. If nothing else, the fracture that occurred after Carl's death will hold more weight against them than anything Stamos has done performing with them.

EXACTLY.

[ESQ Editor]

Stamos may or may not be a nice guy. It's great to hear that he's good to fans.

But that doesn't affect the central point. He is a distraction and has no place onstage.

Just like the cheerleaders.

I have said it before and will say it again -- any goodwill he generates among some part of the public is outweighed by the continuing damage he does  to the brand.

I can't tell you the number of people who have made cracks about Stamos when I mention the Beach Boys. They don't talk about the mastery of Pet Sounds or the artistry if Good Vibrations or the fractured whimsy of Love You. They make jokes about a 50-year-old sitcom actor.

It's great that he's a fan. It's great he wants to bring people to the music. But that doesn't mean you crash the show and play rock star yourself. Even if the band asks you.

It's not wish fulfillment. It's destroying something he purports to love.

If anyone here ever wonders why we don't get cool archival releases, if anyone here ever wonders why we don't get more respect among music fans, if anyone ever wonders why you can't going to a music store and buy actual Beach Boys albums, if anyone wonders why Mike has the terrible reputation he does -- just look at Stamos.

He is absolutely emblematic of a band that does not take itself or its music or its fans or its legacy at all seriously. And if the band doesn't care about these things, other folks won't either.

If the people you are talking to are making cracks about Stamos instead of the catalogue that speaks directly to their knowledge of the group, which must be minimal.   If they are well-versed in The Beach Boys catalogue and they choose to make cracks about John Stamos instead of discussing the music, then that is more of a reflection of those individuals and their inability to carry on an intellectual conversation about the music.  Are you suggesting that The Beach Boys name is surrounded in murkiness because of John Stamos?  The Beach Boys musical legacy has ZERO to do with John Stamos.  I would be genuinely surprised if that many casual fans are even aware that he is on the "Summer In Paradise" album…or that the album even exists.  drbeachboys summed it up well.

[bgas]

Stamos may or may not be a nice guy. It's great to hear that he's good to fans.

But that doesn't affect the central point. He is a distraction and has no place onstage.

Just like the cheerleaders.

I have said it before and will say it again -- any goodwill he generates among some part of the public is outweighed by the continuing damage he does  to the brand.

I can't tell you the number of people who have made cracks about Stamos when I mention the Beach Boys. They don't talk about the mastery of Pet Sounds or the artistry if Good Vibrations or the fractured whimsy of Love You. They make jokes about a 50-year-old sitcom actor.

It's great that he's a fan. It's great he wants to bring people to the music. But that doesn't mean you crash the show and play rock star yourself. Even if the band asks you.

It's not wish fulfillment. It's destroying something he purports to love.

If anyone here ever wonders why we don't get cool archival releases, if anyone here ever wonders why we don't get more respect among music fans, if anyone ever wonders why you can't going to a music store and buy actual Beach Boys albums, if anyone wonders why Mike has the terrible reputation he does -- just look at Stamos.

He is absolutely emblematic of a band that does not take itself or its music or its fans or its legacy at all seriously. And if the band doesn't care about these things, other folks won't either.

If the people you are talking to are making cracks about Stamos instead of the catalogue that speaks directly to their knowledge of the group, which must be minimal.   If they are well-versed in The Beach Boys catalogue and they choose to make cracks about John Stamos instead of discussing the music, then that is more of a reflection of those individuals and their inability to carry on an intellectual conversation about the music.  Are you suggesting that The Beach Boys name is surrounded in murkiness because of John Stamos?  The Beach Boys musical legacy has ZERO to do with John Stamos.  I would be genuinely surprised if that many casual fans are even aware that he is on the "Summer In Paradise" album…or that the album even exists.  drbeachboys summed it up well.

Gee, I don't know...  Here's someone on this board that perfectly describes the general public's perception of Stamos and the BBs: 
 

And just for the heck of it, I just input Beach Boys in a YouTube search and one song had 7 million hits.  That would be Kokomo.  And John Stamos face is the one captured on the congas....I have three children who range from 26 to 33, and despite being brainwashed by BB music, now "access their music" more because of John Stamos, than "the originals." And I don't care "how they listen and appreciate" - only that "they do."

When I see the Touring Band, my kids ask if I saw John Stamos.  Not Mike, Bruce, Scott, John (Cowsill) Tim, Christian, Foskett or Randell. 

[startBBtoday]

I have no doubt whatsoever that John Stamos is a lovely guy. What he did for the guy in the wheelchair, and Ethan, proves that to me. I just wish he wasn't up there, trying too hard to be Dennis.

I'm confused about the Dennis comparisons. Stamos is known as a hot dog, correct? It's the fact that he's front and center with an unplugged guitar that bothers everyone so much? And his BTTYS drum solo, and standing up on the bass drum? Playing the drums poorly?

What about that is a Dennis impression? From every live performance I've seen from Dennis, he's understated -- or at least much more understated than Stamos.

I suppose I kind of understand the Dennis comparison, only because he plays drums and sings Forever. But on shows when he sang "Good Timin'" and played guitar, was he trying too hard to be Carl?

Stamos' personality, stage presence and talent is much different than Dennis' and I think he understands that better than anyone.

[Jim Rockford]

Has he been arrested yet? Oh. That's right. He didn't kill anybody. He just showed up at a concert and sang when something malfunctioned. I don't think it's that big of a deal. It's not like Dennis was actually there singing.