Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks?

[Bicyclerider]

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned the old Smile Shop essays… just found this by chance:

http://archive.today/l8Bfa

Thanks for the link. I wish I had been around in the old SMiLE Shop days. The info in that link seems pretty outdated (claiming Little Red Book and Untitled Instrumental aka Spanish Guitar were recorded in the SMiLE Sessions) but I guess that's to be expected since it's presumably ~10 years old.

I've since updated the primer extensively with the release of c-man's session info in the Smile box set.  If anyone wants a copy PM me.

[alf wiedersehen]

His plan for the album that he outlines in that 1967 article is very Zappa-ish.

[Cam Mott]

He already knows it will have 12 songs including GV and he is also putting the writing of the 12 songs in the past.

I never thought about the fact that Brian states that “I’ve written them all” past tense, but you’re right. That also matches what Van Dyke said about never having heard “fire” before because by that time (November 28) he was no longer attending sessions because his part of the project (the lyrics) were done and we know that by early December he was already taking other projects. It seems like at the time of this article Brian was just waiting for the guys to come back from tour to do the vocals, and every session in December, except that one lost Heroes string date on Dec 19, is a vocal session. At the point of this interview, Smile is still set for a pre Christmas release and would not be officially pushed to 1967 until the memo on December 18.

And; something to think about with the date being push to January, there is that Capitol memo from December 8, 1966, the Purchase Order for 100,000 booklets, “to be finished by 1/3/67” and the booklet Proof was sent to two printers on December 19 for 400,000 booklets to be received 1/3/67 and 1/6/67. So for the question as to why Smile was pushed back to January 1967, because that’s when the booklets would arrive. Even if the music was done he had to wait on the covers and booklets. That also matches up with the planned album release date of the week of January 15th, gives Capitol a week ( the 6th to the 15th) to assemble and ship the record, booklet and cover.

This period around Mid-November is the last time we can put VDP and Brian together until late February I believe. Brian implies the songs are written. Earlier in November he told Humble Harv "they" were still working.

Would this Mid-November period also then be the time Siegel refers to as when VDP left the first time, tired of Brian's dominance? That suggests the two collaborators were having problems between them even before this mid-November period while they are writing the songs. This is before the Boys come back from England.

Vosse implies Brian and Van Dyke were writing well together then they were not but he has also suggested they were still collaborating right through H&V.

Anderle also claims they worked well at first and then very much not and their split around February was the main problem for the album.

This might all be baloney but I think there is a lot left to explore in the relationship between the collaborators back then.

[Been Too Long]

He already knows it will have 12 songs including GV and he is also putting the writing of the 12 songs in the past.

I never thought about the fact that Brian states that “I’ve written them all” past tense, but you’re right. That also matches what Van Dyke said about never having heard “fire” before because by that time (November 28) he was no longer attending sessions because his part of the project (the lyrics) were done and we know that by early December he was already taking other projects. It seems like at the time of this article Brian was just waiting for the guys to come back from tour to do the vocals, and every session in December, except that one lost Heroes string date on Dec 19, is a vocal session. At the point of this interview, Smile is still set for a pre Christmas release and would not be officially pushed to 1967 until the memo on December 18.

And; something to think about with the date being push to January, there is that Capitol memo from December 8, 1966, the Purchase Order for 100,000 booklets, “to be finished by 1/3/67” and the booklet Proof was sent to two printers on December 19 for 400,000 booklets to be received 1/3/67 and 1/6/67. So for the question as to why Smile was pushed back to January 1967, because that’s when the booklets would arrive. Even if the music was done he had to wait on the covers and booklets. That also matches up with the planned album release date of the week of January 15th, gives Capitol a week ( the 6th to the 15th) to assemble and ship the record, booklet and cover.

This period around Mid-November is the last time we can put VDP and Brian together until late February I believe. Brian implies the songs are written. Earlier in November he told Humble Harv "they" were still working.

Would this Mid-November period also then be the time Siegel refers to as when VDP left the first time, tired of Brian's dominance? That suggests the two collaborators were having problems between them even before this mid-November period while they are writing the songs. This is before the Boys come back from England.

Vosse implies Brian and Van Dyke were writing well together then they were not but he has also suggested they were still collaborating right through H&V.

Anderle also claims they worked well at first and then very much not and their split around February was the main problem for the album.

This might all be baloney but I think there is a lot left to explore in the relationship between the collaborators back then.

No the last time we can put Brian and Van Dyke together is not mid-November, it’s at the Crow cries session, that was after the Beach Boys came back from tour after November 24th, with the first vocal session in December (I think for My Only Sunshine, maybe on the 2nd).

Siegel is writing from the point of view of early 1967. The paragraph preceding the one mentioning Van Dyke leaving starts with, “As 1967 opened it seems as though Brian and the Beach Boys were assured of a new world of success; yet something was going wrong.” Then the next paragraph is, “Van Dyke Parks had left and come back and would leave again, tired of being constantly dominated by Brian.”

Van Dyke is on the session contract for January 5, 1967 and there are pictures of him in the studio with Brian dated January 6, 1967. Van’s record contract was signed, if I’m remembering right, on January 6. He is heard on sessions in mid and late January, Mid February (Prelude to Fade one on them) and is playing on  sessions at the very end of February to the first or second of March, then nothing after that. 

So Parks is gone the first time in early December (kicked of the project over the lyrics) , called back by Brian by January 5th and is “around” after that through the start of March then making himself unavailable due to working on his own album.

My understanding is that Van Dyke is still working on Smile through all of November, the main part of his work of writing lyrics is done so he is no longer around all the time but still able to be called in for help as needed by Brian. That’s what happens when Brian calls him down to the Beach Boys vocal session to explain his lyrics. The most likely date for that session is December 6.

I agree that the relationship between Brian and Van Dyke really could be explored a lot more. Vosse talks about how Brian would push Van around just because he could. It seems like in ’66 Van was at the mercy of Brian Wilson, looking for his big break, but once he had his own record contract in ’67 Van Dyke eventually decided he didn’t have to put up with Brian anymore (being dominated) and stopped working on Smile and only on his own album.

Of course we also know that in March, according to Vosse and news reports, Brian had created a Heroes mix, possibly 5 minutes long so it seems like maybe Van stopped showing up in March at first because Brian was done with him. But when Brian went back to work on the rest of the Smile songs (late March early April) Van was deep into doing Song Cycle and wouldn’t come back to work with Brian, so Brian had no choice but to dump it all and start over. Keep the stuff he thought worked but write a bunch of new songs to fill out a new album. That Mike Love interview from July ’67 mentions that “We knew the songs months ago” but that Brian was “going through the tapes again.” So we got Smiley Smile.

[puni puni]

His plan for the album that he outlines in that 1967 article is very Zappa-ish.

I've never seen anybody make this connection but the premise of Civilization Phaze III is almost taken directly from "Brian Falls Into a Piano"

[Phoenix]

OK.  Another personal preference question.  I'm hoping to find a consensus.  Which release, including boots, do you think includes the best mono mix of "Cabin Essence"?  I remember hearing complaints about the version on TSS when it was released.  I usually prefer the stereo mixes so I'm not sure what mono mixes are out there.  Thanks in advance!

edit:  And for that matter which release has the best sounding "Good Vibrations"?

[Gabo]

My favorite Smile sequence:

(all from Smile Sessions, except where noted)

1. Our Prayer
2. Heroes and Villains (Smiley)
3. Cabin Essence
4. Wind Chimes (Good Vibes Box Set)
5. The Elements: Fire
6. Good Vibrations (Smiley)
7. Wonderful
8. Do You Like Worms?
9. Vega-Tables
10. Surf's Up
11. You're Welcome

[Nile]

My favorite Smile sequence:

(all from Smile Sessions, except where noted)

1. Our Prayer
2. Heroes and Villains (Smiley)
3. Cabin Essence
4. Wind Chimes (Good Vibes Box Set)
5. The Elements: Fire
6. Good Vibrations (Smiley)
7. Wonderful
8. Do You Like Worms?
9. Vega-Tables
10. Surf's Up
11. You're Welcome

Great.. that´s what I like. One little album with "songs of an american dream" in it´s purest..
The more I look at this list the better transition between VT to SU looks..
Having said that in my mix i have to have Holidays and CIFOTM..Love those...

[Phoenix]

According the the 1966 backing track test mix, CFOTM is a complete 3 min song (without lead vocal) with a structure not too dissimilar to Cabin Essence.

Of course, I forgot about that!

For those curious, the structure is:
chorus / verse / chorus / verse / chorus / bridge / chorus

Interesting.  Where was this stated or released?  I remember hearing about different mixes but don't remember seeing/hearing anything this definitive.  I appreciate the info.

[Summertime Blooz]

According the the 1966 backing track test mix, CFOTM is a complete 3 min song (without lead vocal) with a structure not too dissimilar to Cabin Essence.

Of course, I forgot about that!

For those curious, the structure is:
chorus / verse / chorus / verse / chorus / bridge / chorus

Interesting.  Where was this stated or released?  I remember hearing about different mixes but don't remember seeing/hearing anything this definitive.  I appreciate the info.

On the surface of it, repeating the chorus 4 times sounds like a terrible idea- repetitive and boring.  However, I would still love, love, love to hear what a finished product would have sounded like in 66/67; probably not repetitive or boring at all.

[Phoenix]

For those curious, the structure is:
chorus / verse / chorus / verse / chorus / bridge / chorus

On the surface of it, repeating the chorus 4 times sounds like a terrible idea- repetitive and boring.  However, I would still love, love, love to hear what a finished product would have sounded like in 66/67; probably not repetitive or boring at all.

It actually sounds really good.  I just wand to confirm where the information came from.

[soniclovenoize]

I suppose it'd sound something like this...  
http://www55.zippyshare.com/v/83910205/file.html

Of course, we'd have presumably two different verse lyrics.  It could have essentially ended up much like "I'm Waiting For The Day", in which the initial chorus is more like an intro, then verse/chorus/verse/chorus, then the bridge is more like a middle eight, and ending with a chorus (probably fading out).  This to that mix I made above, it certainly seems solid, as the sections are so quick, the whole song keeps moving and doesn't seem redundant (it only seems redundant because we only have vocals for the chorus...).  

As for sources, hold on, I'm compiling them... 

[Mike's Beard]

His plan for the album that he outlines in that 1967 article is very Zappa-ish.

I've never seen anybody make this connection but the premise of Civilization Phaze III is almost taken directly from "Brian Falls Into a Piano"

Much of the spoken parts for Civilization Phaze III were recorded in 1967. Looks like they were both on the same wavelengh on that one.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I suppose it'd sound something like this...  
http://www55.zippyshare.com/v/83910205/file.html

Wow, that is a great sounding version/mix. I'm wondering if you have a similar one that would start at the 23 second mark?

[soniclovenoize]

OK so apparently the 3 min instrumental version can be found on disc 2, track 3 of the bootleg Archaeology.  It is a vintage BW edit compiled on 10/11/66, before vocals were even recorded.  Also note that the edits were really well-done, unlike BW's vintage test mixes.  Possibly this is a 1988 Linett edit reproducing a BW vintage edit from 10/11/66?  There's tons of tape hiss so it's not sourced from the below reel.  Maybe someone has some info on that...

Once the vocals (for the chorus, anyways) were recorded on 12/6/66, the length seemed to have shortened as we have test edit acetates that Brian compiled on 12/18/66, which can be found on the Vigotone boot and then alternate tape sources of both also on Archaeology...
- bridge / verse / chorus (with vocals 1:41)
- bridge / chorus / verse / chorus (with vocals, 1:56.  Is the BW test mix that Linett based his TSS mix on)


Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here...  

So I think this is an instance of BW not really knowing, at the time, how the song would be structured, because as we know the 2004 version had a completely different structure of verse / chorus / verse / chorus / bridge.  

[soniclovenoize]

I suppose it'd sound something like this...  
http://www55.zippyshare.com/v/83910205/file.html

Wow, that is a great sounding version/mix. I'm wondering if you have a similar one that would start at the 23 second mark?

Oh you mean like this?
http://www64.zippyshare.com/v/58104282/file.html

Also, attach that to the end of Wonderful and see what happens...

[Sheriff John Stone]

I suppose it'd sound something like this...  
http://www55.zippyshare.com/v/83910205/file.html

Wow, that is a great sounding version/mix. I'm wondering if you have a similar one that would start at the 23 second mark?

Oh you mean like this?
http://www64.zippyshare.com/v/58104282/file.html

Also, attach that to the end of Wonderful and see what happens...

Thank you so much, as I quickly pull out my SMiLE fanmix to make a welcome addition. Thanks again!

[Bicyclerider]

OK so apparently the 3 min instrumental version can be found on disc 2, track 3 of the bootleg Archaeology.  It is a vintage BW edit compiled on 10/11/66, before vocals were even recorded.  Also note that the edits were really well-done, unlike BW's vintage test mixes.  Possibly this is a 1988 Linett edit reproducing a BW vintage edit from 10/11/66?  There's tons of tape hiss so it's not sourced from the below reel.  Maybe someone has some info on that...

Once the vocals (for the chorus, anyways) were recorded on 12/6/66, the length seemed to have shortened as we have test edit acetates that Brian compiled on 12/18/66, which can be found on the Vigotone boot and then alternate tape sources of both also on Archaeology...
- bridge / verse / chorus (with vocals 1:41)
- bridge / chorus / verse / chorus (with vocals, 1:56.  Is the BW test mix that Linett based his TSS mix on)


Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here...  

So I think this is an instance of BW not really knowing, at the time, how the song would be structured, because as we know the 2004 version had a completely different structure of verse / chorus / verse / chorus / bridge.  

I would suggest that he did know the structure - it was the 10/11/66 3 minute edit.  When he went to work on the vocals, he did it piecemeal, so then mixed down the vocal parts with varous instrumental sections, like he did with Cabinessence - there are lots of partial mixes of verse/Iron Horse/verse and verse//Iron Horse/Grand Coulee Dam with partial vocals on different sections.  As he was recording vocals he wanted to hear how they sounded so would do these "partial" mixes.  The Durrie Parks acetates are filled with these partial mixes of Worms sections, Cabinessence, Heroes and Wind Chimes.

[Rocket]

Hello everyone! Big Beach Boys fan, been a lurker for a while. I likely won't post too often, but I figured I should have an account anyways just in case.

With that out the way, if you listen to "My Only Sunshine Pts. 1 & 2" outtake on The Smile Sessions, near the end you can hear Brian say "This is the big finale".

Could it be that My Only Sunshine was intended as the album closer? Also I find it interesting that was listed as the last track on the infamous Capitol letter (though I do question the letter at times). Also makes me wonder where Surf's Up goes.

Thoughts? I'm sure it's been discussed, but I have yet to find anything on it.

[soniclovenoize]

I would suggest that he did know the structure - it was the 10/11/66 3 minute edit.  When he went to work on the vocals, he did it piecemeal, so then mixed down the vocal parts with varous instrumental sections, like he did with Cabinessence - there are lots of partial mixes of verse/Iron Horse/verse and verse//Iron Horse/Grand Coulee Dam with partial vocals on different sections.  As he was recording vocals he wanted to hear how they sounded so would do these "partial" mixes.  The Durrie Parks acetates are filled with these partial mixes of Worms sections, Cabinessence, Heroes and Wind Chimes.

Yeah I can see that.  But why go to the trouble of making a test mix of the incorrect sequence?  Why not just make it right the first time? 

Hello everyone! Big Beach Boys fan, been a lurker for a while. I likely won't post too often, but I figured I should have an account anyways just in case.

With that out the way, if you listen to "My Only Sunshine Pts. 1 & 2" outtake on The Smile Sessions, near the end you can hear Brian say "This is the big finale".

Could it be that My Only Sunshine was intended as the album closer? Also I find it interesting that was listed as the last track on the infamous Capitol letter (though I do question the letter at times). Also makes me wonder where Surf's Up goes.

Thoughts? I'm sure it's been discussed, but I have yet to find anything on it.

I've always interpreted Brian as meaning the big finale to the song itself, although that is an interesting observation.

Also, I love False Barnyard but is it really a big finale?  Cabin Essence or Surf's Up and maybe even The Elements depending on how it's made are big finales.  But False Barnyard? 

Could be though.  I would be lying if I said it wasn't a cool ending to the album nonetheless. 

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

He already knows it will have 12 songs including GV and he is also putting the writing of the 12 songs in the past.

I never thought about the fact that Brian states that “I’ve written them all” past tense, but you’re right. That also matches what Van Dyke said about never having heard “fire” before because by that time (November 28) he was no longer attending sessions because his part of the project (the lyrics) were done and we know that by early December he was already taking other projects. It seems like at the time of this article Brian was just waiting for the guys to come back from tour to do the vocals, and every session in December, except that one lost Heroes string date on Dec 19, is a vocal session. At the point of this interview, Smile is still set for a pre Christmas release and would not be officially pushed to 1967 until the memo on December 18.

And; something to think about with the date being push to January, there is that Capitol memo from December 8, 1966, the Purchase Order for 100,000 booklets, “to be finished by 1/3/67” and the booklet Proof was sent to two printers on December 19 for 400,000 booklets to be received 1/3/67 and 1/6/67. So for the question as to why Smile was pushed back to January 1967, because that’s when the booklets would arrive. Even if the music was done he had to wait on the covers and booklets. That also matches up with the planned album release date of the week of January 15th, gives Capitol a week ( the 6th to the 15th) to assemble and ship the record, booklet and cover.

This period around Mid-November is the last time we can put VDP and Brian together until late February I believe. Brian implies the songs are written. Earlier in November he told Humble Harv "they" were still working.

Would this Mid-November period also then be the time Siegel refers to as when VDP left the first time, tired of Brian's dominance? That suggests the two collaborators were having problems between them even before this mid-November period while they are writing the songs. This is before the Boys come back from England.

Vosse implies Brian and Van Dyke were writing well together then they were not but he has also suggested they were still collaborating right through H&V.

Anderle also claims they worked well at first and then very much not and their split around February was the main problem for the album.

This might all be baloney but I think there is a lot left to explore in the relationship between the collaborators back then.

No the last time we can put Brian and Van Dyke together is not mid-November, it’s at the Crow cries session, that was after the Beach Boys came back from tour after November 24th, with the first vocal session in December (I think for My Only Sunshine, maybe on the 2nd).

Siegel is writing from the point of view of early 1967. The paragraph preceding the one mentioning Van Dyke leaving starts with, “As 1967 opened it seems as though Brian and the Beach Boys were assured of a new world of success; yet something was going wrong.” Then the next paragraph is, “Van Dyke Parks had left and come back and would leave again, tired of being constantly dominated by Brian.”

Van Dyke is on the session contract for January 5, 1967 and there are pictures of him in the studio with Brian dated January 6, 1967. Van’s record contract was signed, if I’m remembering right, on January 6. He is heard on sessions in mid and late January, Mid February (Prelude to Fade one on them) and is playing on  sessions at the very end of February to the first or second of March, then nothing after that. 

So Parks is gone the first time in early December (kicked of the project over the lyrics) , called back by Brian by January 5th and is “around” after that through the start of March then making himself unavailable due to working on his own album.

My understanding is that Van Dyke is still working on Smile through all of November, the main part of his work of writing lyrics is done so he is no longer around all the time but still able to be called in for help as needed by Brian. That’s what happens when Brian calls him down to the Beach Boys vocal session to explain his lyrics. The most likely date for that session is December 6.

I agree that the relationship between Brian and Van Dyke really could be explored a lot more. Vosse talks about how Brian would push Van around just because he could. It seems like in ’66 Van was at the mercy of Brian Wilson, looking for his big break, but once he had his own record contract in ’67 Van Dyke eventually decided he didn’t have to put up with Brian anymore (being dominated) and stopped working on Smile and only on his own album.

Of course we also know that in March, according to Vosse and news reports, Brian had created a Heroes mix, possibly 5 minutes long so it seems like maybe Van stopped showing up in March at first because Brian was done with him. But when Brian went back to work on the rest of the Smile songs (late March early April) Van was deep into doing Song Cycle and wouldn’t come back to work with Brian, so Brian had no choice but to dump it all and start over. Keep the stuff he thought worked but write a bunch of new songs to fill out a new album. That Mike Love interview from July ’67 mentions that “We knew the songs months ago” but that Brian was “going through the tapes again.” So we got Smiley Smile.

I would also like to learn more about Brian and Van Dyke. It seems to be in Brian's character at this time to be difficult. He spurned Mike, David, Al and eventually the entire Vosse Posse at this time. I think Al and Bruce have said they felt personally humiliated with the Farm noises and how Brian laughed at them, didn't seem to care about their feelings. VDP he set up to debate with Mike without giving him a heads up or defending the project he had previously seemed dedicated to. Brian wasn't being very considerate to others at this point.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I suppose it'd sound something like this...  
http://www55.zippyshare.com/v/83910205/file.html

Wow, that is a great sounding version/mix. I'm wondering if you have a similar one that would start at the 23 second mark?

Oh you mean like this?
http://www64.zippyshare.com/v/58104282/file.html

Also, attach that to the end of Wonderful and see what happens...

Excellent job on that. Thank you for sharing it!

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I would suggest that he did know the structure - it was the 10/11/66 3 minute edit.  When he went to work on the vocals, he did it piecemeal, so then mixed down the vocal parts with varous instrumental sections, like he did with Cabinessence - there are lots of partial mixes of verse/Iron Horse/verse and verse//Iron Horse/Grand Coulee Dam with partial vocals on different sections.  As he was recording vocals he wanted to hear how they sounded so would do these "partial" mixes.  The Durrie Parks acetates are filled with these partial mixes of Worms sections, Cabinessence, Heroes and Wind Chimes.

Yeah I can see that.  But why go to the trouble of making a test mix of the incorrect sequence?  Why not just make it right the first time? 

Hello everyone! Big Beach Boys fan, been a lurker for a while. I likely won't post too often, but I figured I should have an account anyways just in case.

With that out the way, if you listen to "My Only Sunshine Pts. 1 & 2" outtake on The Smile Sessions, near the end you can hear Brian say "This is the big finale".

Could it be that My Only Sunshine was intended as the album closer? Also I find it interesting that was listed as the last track on the infamous Capitol letter (though I do question the letter at times). Also makes me wonder where Surf's Up goes.

Thoughts? I'm sure it's been discussed, but I have yet to find anything on it.

I've always interpreted Brian as meaning the big finale to the song itself, although that is an interesting observation.

Also, I love False Barnyard but is it really a big finale?  Cabin Essence or Surf's Up and maybe even The Elements depending on how it's made are big finales.  But False Barnyard? 

Could be though.  I would be lying if I said it wasn't a cool ending to the album nonetheless. 

I think at the time he recorded it, he meant for it to be the finale for one of the sides. Not necessarily the album. I think he abandoned it once he used the fade in Heroes, though. Maybe he'd still had some kind of plan for OMP as a track, but no longer as the finale. Maybe he was recording a fleshed out standalone Dada or had Carl work on Tones to take its place.

[Rocket]

I would suggest that he did know the structure - it was the 10/11/66 3 minute edit.  When he went to work on the vocals, he did it piecemeal, so then mixed down the vocal parts with varous instrumental sections, like he did with Cabinessence - there are lots of partial mixes of verse/Iron Horse/verse and verse//Iron Horse/Grand Coulee Dam with partial vocals on different sections.  As he was recording vocals he wanted to hear how they sounded so would do these "partial" mixes.  The Durrie Parks acetates are filled with these partial mixes of Worms sections, Cabinessence, Heroes and Wind Chimes.

Yeah I can see that.  But why go to the trouble of making a test mix of the incorrect sequence?  Why not just make it right the first time? 

Hello everyone! Big Beach Boys fan, been a lurker for a while. I likely won't post too often, but I figured I should have an account anyways just in case.

With that out the way, if you listen to "My Only Sunshine Pts. 1 & 2" outtake on The Smile Sessions, near the end you can hear Brian say "This is the big finale".

Could it be that My Only Sunshine was intended as the album closer? Also I find it interesting that was listed as the last track on the infamous Capitol letter (though I do question the letter at times). Also makes me wonder where Surf's Up goes.

Thoughts? I'm sure it's been discussed, but I have yet to find anything on it.

I've always interpreted Brian as meaning the big finale to the song itself, although that is an interesting observation.

Also, I love False Barnyard but is it really a big finale?  Cabin Essence or Surf's Up and maybe even The Elements depending on how it's made are big finales.  But False Barnyard? 

Could be though.  I would be lying if I said it wasn't a cool ending to the album nonetheless. 

I think at the time he recorded it, he meant for it to be the finale for one of the sides. Not necessarily the album. I think he abandoned it once he used the fade in Heroes, though. Maybe he'd still had some kind of plan for OMP as a track, but no longer as the finale. Maybe he was recording a fleshed out standalone Dada or had Carl work on Tones to take its place.

Thanks for the input! I'm going to test out a few different mixes and see what happens. I personally love the idea of using the 3 minute Heroes and Villains as the first track and My Only Sunshine as the last track on either Side 1 or 2. That way "False Barnyard" ends the first song and last song of the side/album. Feels full circle.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I would suggest that he did know the structure - it was the 10/11/66 3 minute edit.  When he went to work on the vocals, he did it piecemeal, so then mixed down the vocal parts with varous instrumental sections, like he did with Cabinessence - there are lots of partial mixes of verse/Iron Horse/verse and verse//Iron Horse/Grand Coulee Dam with partial vocals on different sections.  As he was recording vocals he wanted to hear how they sounded so would do these "partial" mixes.  The Durrie Parks acetates are filled with these partial mixes of Worms sections, Cabinessence, Heroes and Wind Chimes.

Yeah I can see that.  But why go to the trouble of making a test mix of the incorrect sequence?  Why not just make it right the first time? 

Hello everyone! Big Beach Boys fan, been a lurker for a while. I likely won't post too often, but I figured I should have an account anyways just in case.

With that out the way, if you listen to "My Only Sunshine Pts. 1 & 2" outtake on The Smile Sessions, near the end you can hear Brian say "This is the big finale".

Could it be that My Only Sunshine was intended as the album closer? Also I find it interesting that was listed as the last track on the infamous Capitol letter (though I do question the letter at times). Also makes me wonder where Surf's Up goes.

Thoughts? I'm sure it's been discussed, but I have yet to find anything on it.

I've always interpreted Brian as meaning the big finale to the song itself, although that is an interesting observation.

Also, I love False Barnyard but is it really a big finale?  Cabin Essence or Surf's Up and maybe even The Elements depending on how it's made are big finales.  But False Barnyard? 

Could be though.  I would be lying if I said it wasn't a cool ending to the album nonetheless. 

I think at the time he recorded it, he meant for it to be the finale for one of the sides. Not necessarily the album. I think he abandoned it once he used the fade in Heroes, though. Maybe he'd still had some kind of plan for OMP as a track, but no longer as the finale. Maybe he was recording a fleshed out standalone Dada or had Carl work on Tones to take its place.

Thanks for the input! I'm going to test out a few different mixes and see what happens. I personally love the idea of using the 3 minute Heroes and Villains as the first track and My Only Sunshine as the last track on either Side 1 or 2. That way "False Barnyard" ends the first song and last song of the side/album. Feels full circle.

I agree. When I still believed in the 3 suite structure, my only real significant change was replace GV with a "Dumb Angel" suite of outtakes like You're Welcome, With Me Tonight, Bicycle Rider and Barnshine. Now I see it as the closer of the Americana Side and Surfs Up the closer of the Cycle of Life side.