SMiLE Boots - How did they evolve, and how many are there?

[Cam Mott]

If it was good for Brian to do it then I'm glad for that but I'm also sort of bothered by a feeling that it was a dickish move by Brian to do it without the Beach Boys.

Cam, if two of the three survivors of your group either criticized the lyrics for years (Love), or claimed that Smiley Smile was 1000 times better than the bunch of music bites that are Smile (Johnston)*, are those REALLY the people you would ask to help you finish it?  And no, I am not claiming that they killed it in the first place.  But I don't think it is at all dickish not to involve people who didn't and still don't think that highly of Brian and VDP's work to this day.

* the quote is from memory, but the sentiment has been the same for years.

Yes, I would have because it was a group album and they worked their asses off and put up with a lot of crap.

On the rest we will disagree.

[Micha]

I have mixed feelings about BWPS. From a point of view in terms of composition, to me BWPS is the finished SMiLE. And finished in a great way, except for a few minor things that I wished would be different. The sound of the studio CD however has nearly nothing of the magic the 66/67 recordings have. I'm sad they didn't finish the recordings for TSS. Mike's, Al's, and Bruce's voices are still good enough to record the few missing vocals.

I prefer listening to an audio rip of the DVD live version than the studio BWPS CD.

[Mayoman]

I prefer listening to an audio rip of the DVD live version than the studio BWPS CD.

I think that's my preferred version as well for the completed version.

[?]

If it was good for Brian to do it then I'm glad for that but I'm also sort of bothered by a feeling that it was a dickish move by Brian to do it without the Beach Boys.

Cam, if two of the three survivors of your group either criticized the lyrics for years (Love), or claimed that Smiley Smile was 1000 times better than the bunch of music bites that are Smile (Johnston)*, are those REALLY the people you would ask to help you finish it?  And no, I am not claiming that they killed it in the first place.  But I don't think it is at all dickish not to involve people who didn't and still don't think that highly of Brian and VDP's work to this day.

* the quote is from memory, but the sentiment has been the same for years.

Yes, I would have because it was a group album and they worked their asses off and put up with a lot of crap.

On the rest we will disagree.

It was always a BW and VDP album.  Yes, the Beach Boys worked on the original sessions but the only two of them that were into it unfortunately didn't make it to 2004.

Do you think it was wrong that the Beach Boys did Darlin and Time to Get Alone without Redwood?  Just curious.  I think that's a fair comparison.

[Cam Mott]

If it was good for Brian to do it then I'm glad for that but I'm also sort of bothered by a feeling that it was a dickish move by Brian to do it without the Beach Boys.

Cam, if two of the three survivors of your group either criticized the lyrics for years (Love), or claimed that Smiley Smile was 1000 times better than the bunch of music bites that are Smile (Johnston)*, are those REALLY the people you would ask to help you finish it?  And no, I am not claiming that they killed it in the first place.  But I don't think it is at all dickish not to involve people who didn't and still don't think that highly of Brian and VDP's work to this day.

* the quote is from memory, but the sentiment has been the same for years.

Yes, I would have because it was a group album and they worked their asses off and put up with a lot of crap.

On the rest we will disagree.

It was always a BW and VDP album.  Yes, the Beach Boys worked on the original sessions but the only two of them that were into it unfortunately didn't make it to 2004.

Do you think it was wrong that the Beach Boys did Darlin and Time to Get Alone without Redwood?  Just curious.  I think that's a fair comparison.

The way I see it SMiLE was always a Beach Boys album. Brian, VDP, and Mike were coauthors of the non-covers in it. Brian was Capitol's producer for the Beach Boys' album. The Boys worked very hard on it and paid all of the bills for it and many feel the group's rep suffered from its non-release. It didn't get released because of Brian. I'm sure no one intended anybody any harm by BWPS but it still seems to me it was a dickish move on Brian's part.

Your comparison doesn't work for me but maybe some Redwood fans can make a case for it being a similar move by Brian.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

If it was good for Brian to do it then I'm glad for that but I'm also sort of bothered by a feeling that it was a dickish move by Brian to do it without the Beach Boys.

Cam, if two of the three survivors of your group either criticized the lyrics for years (Love), or claimed that Smiley Smile was 1000 times better than the bunch of music bites that are Smile (Johnston)*, are those REALLY the people you would ask to help you finish it?  And no, I am not claiming that they killed it in the first place.  But I don't think it is at all dickish not to involve people who didn't and still don't think that highly of Brian and VDP's work to this day.

* the quote is from memory, but the sentiment has been the same for years.

Yes, I would have because it was a group album and they worked their asses off and put up with a lot of crap.

On the rest we will disagree.

It was always a BW and VDP album.  Yes, the Beach Boys worked on the original sessions but the only two of them that were into it unfortunately didn't make it to 2004.

Do you think it was wrong that the Beach Boys did Darlin and Time to Get Alone without Redwood?  Just curious.  I think that's a fair comparison.

The way I see it SMiLE was always a Beach Boys album. Brian, VDP, and Mike were coauthors of the non-covers in it. Brian was Capitol's producer for the Beach Boys' album. The Boys worked very hard on it and paid all of the bills for it and many feel the group's rep suffered from its non-release. It didn't get released because of Brian. I'm sure no one intended anybody any harm by BWPS but it still seems to me it was a dickish move on Brian's part.

Your comparison doesn't work for me but maybe some Redwood fans can make a case for it being a similar move by Brian.

I disagree. While I don't think Mike is the sole reason the album was shelved, I think his and the other Boys' disinterest (at best) or outright hostility (depending on who you believe) contributed greatly to Brian's emotional breakdown and inability to finish the album. The other Beach Boys had their chance with the SMiLE music, they had almost 30 years to revisit it if they wanted...and they didn't. I think it's safe to say they weren't interested. Brian composed those songs himself, he conducted the wrecking crew in the studio, he specifically chose a different lyricist for this project. SMiLE is his brainchild and he has the right to do as he pleases with it. When it comes to these particular songs, he doesn't owe the other Beach Boys a thing, and in my opinion, the only BB worthy of being onstage with him for BWPS would be Dennis, the only one who trusted Brian's judgement.

All that being said, while Im glad BWPS happened, and I appreciate it for what it is, I must agree with the sentiment that it's also Darian's fan resequencing, in a way. I wish the three suite BWPS/TSS track order hadn't become so unquestionable and made to be the standard this past decade. I agree, it works as a live performance set, but its doesn't work for the '67 studio album that might've been. It's a great insult to the SMiLE material and its possibilities that the vast majority of mixes now are cut and past BWPS with perhaps a few minor alterations.