Dennis 1983 unseen pics on Facebook

[Tricycle Rider]

The BB aside, I can also bore for England on the subject of:

Butch Cassidy, the Sundance Kid & the Wild bunch (the real people, not the movie)...
Pre-Victorian cricket...
Jack the Ripper...
Silent movies...
The novels of Arthur C. Clarke...

... but in deference to the nature of this forum, and also not wanting to alienate you any more than I usually do anyway, I'll stick with The Beach Boys, if that's OK by you. 

Hey Andrew,
Not to veer off topic, but it's been quite a while since I've heard OR seen anything on Jack The Ripper, so I'm wondering if anything new has surfaced in regards to who he might have been.

To everyone else: Regarding Dennis, he doesn't look as bad as I expected. I looked worse than that at the tail end of my drinking/drug taking days, and I rebounded and ended up looking/feeling healthier and a bit younger. I wish that could have happened for Dennis.

[Micha]

Nowhere am I looking down on anybody,

Let's say you did a pretty good job of hiding that in your previous posts about Dennis.

but I think it is fair enough to ask does personal responsibility and accountability factor into the equation anywhere here?

The fact that one has responsibility about what one does in his/her life doesn't mean I can't have some compassion with someone who failed so in such a way that led to his own death. I have very little compassion with, say, Manson or Hitler, but a lot with Dennis.

There is just zero hard evidence that Dennis' drink/drug problems materialised because of father issues and to automatically give him a free pass because of them is a cop out to me.

I wonder why you're bringing up this "free pass" thing all the time. If there was something like a "free pass to become a drug addict", who would decide what granted a "free pass"? Fact is, Dennis' problems did materialise and neither you or me know the full story. But I sincerely doubt that someone with a clear mind would say, "Hey, I got an idea! I'll drink and drug myself to death!"

[Mike's Beard]

I wonder why you're bringing up this "free pass" thing all the time. If there was something like a "free pass to become a drug addict", who would decide what granted a "free pass"? Fact is, Dennis' problems did materialise and neither you or me know the full story. But I sincerely doubt that someone with a clear mind would say, "Hey, I got an idea! I'll drink and drug myself to death!"

I am talking about people's attitudes to his addiction after his death and how easily some seem to excuse it. As you well know. The language barrier between us isn't that dense. BTW feel free not to reply because frankly there are more pressing issues in my life at present then why Dennis Wilson became an addict. I was stupid to try discuss this site's sacred cow in anything other than a flattering manner, no matter what aspect of his life we were referencing. I'm done with this conversation.

[RangeRoverA1]

You don't understand: my obsession with accurately documenting the history of Brian Wilson & The Beach Boys is only one aspect of my addictive personality, one which ran in tandem with the less laudable seriously excessive drinking and others (which I'd rather not detail here) even more damaging to my general wellbeing, physical and mental. You can't divert the flow from the destructive to the creative at the drop of a hat. You have an addictive personality... or you don't. That's possibly the only simple, black & white aspect of it. The degree can vary. I happen to have the BB bit bad: the drinking, etc., I "got over" when my doctor told me I had an excellent chance of leaving the building for good if I didn't stop. That was the only thing that worked, in that situation.

Right on, AGD. You sum up addiction perfectly. And RangeRover is just one of those people who oversimplifies drug/alcohol/anything addiction. She/he/whatever would be greeeat for something like that useless DARE program.

I actually never heard of this "DARE program", it's obviously not music-related so I'm not going to check. On your 2nd sentence, didn't Mr. Doe also oversimplify the addiction in that above post you quoted by saying you have an addictive personality or you don't? It can't be like that, most people I know are addictive in 1 thing & aren't in another, as well as they've got good side & evil side, from which sth. wins depending on one's strong will. Dennis, alas, didn't have enough of it.
Btw, it felt weird to be called "whatever". For a mo' I thought I'm a kids' doll. [or RoboCop/Pinocchio/stuffed animal/insert any similar unlively subject]

Drug addiction has nothing to do with intelligence. True.

But predisposed/addictive personality or not, perhaps a person who begins to dabble in drugs isn't being wise. I think maybe that is what she meant.

Why you keep mentioning this word "intelligence", I used its stylistically differing synonym "smart". But anyway, you're right, that's exactly what I's getting at.

[Dancing Bear]

I don't think anyone here gives Dennis a free pass. He made choices and died young. Ain't life a bitch?

I'd say thre's some free passing about those times when Dennis physically assaulted Mike.

[bgas]

I wonder why you're bringing up this "free pass" thing all the time. If there was something like a "free pass to become a drug addict", who would decide what granted a "free pass"? Fact is, Dennis' problems did materialise and neither you or me know the full story. But I sincerely doubt that someone with a clear mind would say, "Hey, I got an idea! I'll drink and drug myself to death!"

I am talking about people's attitudes to his addiction after his death and how easily some seem to excuse it. As you well know. The language barrier between us isn't that dense. BTW feel free not to reply because frankly there are more pressing issues in my life at present then why Dennis Wilson became an addict. I was stupid to try discuss this site's sacred cow in anything other than a flattering manner, no matter what aspect of his life we were referencing. I'm done with this conversation.

Gee, That's a relief.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Hey Andrew,
Not to veer off topic, but it's been quite a while since I've heard OR seen anything on Jack The Ripper, so I'm wondering if anything new has surfaced in regards to who he might have been.

Don Rumbelow has a theory that it might have been the guy who ran the doss house where Eddowes hung out before she was killed, but as he died shortly thereafter, DR admits you have to exclude Mary Kelly from the canon. My money's still on Chapman, but as previously stated, he can best be described as the "least-unlikely" suspect. My very best guess is... we'll never know.

[Micha]

I wonder why you're bringing up this "free pass" thing all the time. If there was something like a "free pass to become a drug addict", who would decide what granted a "free pass"? Fact is, Dennis' problems did materialise and neither you or me know the full story. But I sincerely doubt that someone with a clear mind would say, "Hey, I got an idea! I'll drink and drug myself to death!"

I am talking about people's attitudes to his addiction after his death and how easily some seem to excuse it. As you well know. The language barrier between us isn't that dense. BTW feel free not to reply because frankly there are more pressing issues in my life at present then why Dennis Wilson became an addict. I was stupid to try discuss this site's sacred cow in anything other than a flattering manner, no matter what aspect of his life we were referencing. I'm done with this conversation.

Gee, That's a relief.

Nah, I'm sad that he took the wrong conclusion from the conversation. I didn't manage to make him comprehend that having compassion with a drug addict who destroyed himself does not equal to flatter the person or welcome his addiction.

[The 4th Wilson Bro.]

LOL!  There's irony in them thar posts.  We accuse a poster of being too harsh when he/she offers an honest opinion about one of our heroes.  And in the next instant we post our own opinion of the other poster – an opinion that's ten times more harsh than the opinion we considered so outrageously offensive.

Can't we all drop our holier than thous and just try to get along?

[Micha]

We accuse a poster of being too harsh when he/she offers an honest opinion about one of our heroes.

That's not what I did. Beard claimed that Dennis took his decision to ruin himself with a totally clear mind and clear sense of judgement and thus has no "excuse" for having done so. My point was that he doesn't know about Dennis' state of mind at the time. I agree with him that Dennis showed little responsibility for his life. But that isn't enough for me to condemn Dennis.

[Ed Roach]

Andrew, had you heard about this show:  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/butch/

edit: this was supposed to be linked to this previous post: 

Quote from: Cam Mott on January 29, 2014, 09:10:35 AM

Do you still dabble in Cassidy and Longabaugh ol' pal?

The Legendary AGD

Not as much as I used to, but I did have a (very small) hand in debunking a photo alleged to show a whole host of western legends (including Butch & Sundance) gathered at a place in Montana called Hunters Hot Springs in (allegedly) 1883.

[bringahorseinhere?]

also the likes of Brian and Dennis,

have had to live their pain/torment in the lime light!

me, being a Brian Wilson fan, believes, he may be the only 'rock star' that doesn't behave like one!

Dennis and Brian, and Carl too I guess, have had to deal with everything publicly....

its only these days, Brian won't comment or express to much about things......

where as Dennis, was always positive in the 'media' sense......

I still love the bit in 'American band'.... where he says 'some folks are addicted to achohol or drugs..... I'm addicted

to seeing that person and making them smile'........

these guys have had a hard time dealing with the 'sh*t' in their lives, but also being 'professional'....

give em a break!   Mike too!

RickB