Thoughts on "Where Is She?" and Brian's 'Sunflower' voice

[runnersdialzero]

I feel like no one has mentioned that a lot of what we have of Brian's vocals from around this period are either demos or went unused. "Break Away" is a scratch vocal meant only as a placeholder, "Awake" is a demo, "Where Is She?" is very likely a demo, the bit of Brian vocal on the new acapella "This Whole World" could easily be a scratch vocal (it sure doesn't sound like a full on attempt given that it's single-tracked).

I feel this is relevant, y'know? You're demoing something for someone else to sing, you're probably not gonna put your heart and soul into the performance and try to do your best.

[seltaeb1012002]

*I'm sure 1982 was worse, but it's not like was singing either.

Speaking of, I've been meaning to upload this.

Here's what Brian sounded like in 1982:

https://soundcloud.com/smile-a-d/gok-82-brian-lead

[Aric Keith]

I think I see where you're going with the "under use" idea now, and that makes sense. Basically his voice was changing due to damage, but he was "behind the curve" because he wasn't singing much. That makes sense, too, when you consider that by the mid/late 80's his voice was actually quite strong. Despite the weirdness of the Landy years and the first solo album, he was actually in really good shape, vocally. For example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgiVWCHeEnY

Vocally, this is a good performance.
Aric

Aric, good point about Brian's speaking voice. What really blew my mind while listening to CF74 was his speaking voice at the very end of the track. He sounds EXACTLY like he would 3 years later in the opening of 'That Special Feeling' ('cassette rolling?').  

I think there's a very good reason for why he sounded so different on 15 BO and (to a lesser extent) Love You...

I think that as Brian's voice changed due to age, illness and abuse (and he was doing all of those things very young), the willpower and dedication needed to make his voice do those unnatural things decreased. And when he simply had to sing in his "normal voice," perhaps he didn't quite have an innate sense of what that was.

Good points, Clay, but I think there's something that many are missing. He recorded very few vocals in 1972-1975. In 1972, he tried out several different singing styles with Spring, and his few vocals on So Tough sounded like MIU Brian minus the rasp (notable exception being his 1976 sound on his vocals for He Come Down)/ 1973 still sounds like Brian of 1969-1971, but is singing a bit differently (the opening of 'California' is him using his 15BO style minus the rasp). 1974 was the change. Although he seemingly sounded okay on 'Rollin' Up To Heaven', on closer inspection the falsetto sounded like his MIU voice. We've heard CF now, so we know how he sounded there. We've heard almost nothing from 1975, but his backups for the Johnny Rivers 'Help Me Rhonda' and the other song he did (can't remember the artist's name, but I remember it was a female singer) were real bad. His voice was already changed by that point. The question is, to what extent? There's a very good reason why Brian's 1978 voice is almost the same as it was in 1974. Why did he sound so rough on 15 BO? I've stated before that some of it was a put on...you can hear Brian experimenting with his vocal style starting in 1972, like he wanted to be a different singer. Hell, he even disguised his voice on MT Vernon & Fairway and Child Of Winter the following year. But, there's also something else.

Muscle memory. Or, the loss of.

I mentioned above that Brian rarely sang as the years went on. The coke and smokes, combined with snorting heroin (...), definitely damaged his voice. Nobody is disputing that. You take a singer and shred the sh*t out of his voice for a couple of years, well, that doesn't lead to anything good. However, if that same singer goes from, say, 12 Nov 1974 thru 29 May 1975 (and then for 3 1/2 months later) without laying down vocals while continuing to abuse their voice ...15 Big Ones is the result. Vocally, he was rustier than a hobo's botulism-laden can of pork &  beans. He basically had to relearn to sing. Not only was his voice damaged, he was out of practice. That's why he sounded a bit better on LY, and a hell of a lot better on MIU (and other things recorded in 1978). The funny part is, by the time MIU rolled around Brian had been off the wagon for quite a while. So, it's the combination of him not trying to sound like Randy Newman and having sung more often recently that made him sound like he did 4 years previously.

With that in mind, by 1979 the damage was permanent, and this time the worsening voice was no put-on. I think his divorce from Marilyn caused a further downward spiral equivalent to when Murry passed in 1973. As bad as he sounded most of the time in 1976, they were worlds away from 1980. Difference between trying to f*** up your voice on purpose while also trying to sound worse than you actually were, and having already ruined it. Best analogy I can come up with? In 1974, Brian's voice sounded like the vocal equivalent of  hurting yourself while zipping your fly. From 1978-1981*, it was the equivalent of putting your dick in a wood chipper.


*I'm sure 1982 was worse, but it's not like was singing either.

edit

MarcellaHasDirtyFeet (great user name) and i had the same idea

[pixletwin]

*I'm sure 1982 was worse, but it's not like was singing either.

Speaking of, I've been meaning to upload this.

Here's what Brian sounded like in 1982:

https://soundcloud.com/smile-a-d/gok-82-brian-lead

Brian sounds a lot like Burl Ives there.

[Sheriff John Stone]

*I'm sure 1982 was worse, but it's not like was singing either.

Speaking of, I've been meaning to upload this.

Here's what Brian sounded like in 1982:

https://soundcloud.com/smile-a-d/gok-82-brian-lead

Thank you very much for the link; I enjoyed that very much. I saw Brian with the Beach Boys in 1982. He was huge (especially his gut) and he was acting a little strange on stage, but... I've posted it a few times recently but I really liked Brian's voice in 1981-82. I can't explain it but it was different, or unique. I guess I was just so happy to hear that it was still intact and strong. Keep in mind that Brian went two albums - L.A.(Light Album) and Keepin' The Summer Alive - WITHOUT A LEAD VOCAL!!!

[Dave Modny]

We've heard almost nothing from 1975, but his backups for the Johnny Rivers 'Help Me Rhonda' and the other song he did (can't remember the artist's name, but I remember it was a female singer) were real bad.

Boat To Sail - Jackie DeShannon

Besides Back Home, Rhonda and BTS, the other released '75 vocal performances were (the barely audible) "Why Do Fools Fall In Love" (California Music), as well as "Just 14" (Tim Curry - released in Jan. of '76). Any others that I'm missing?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I've never heard that version of WDFFIL!

[Jim V.]

I have always wondered if the relative decline of Brian's singing voice, especially compared to say, Carl, had to do with the fact that he rarely performed live. I mean, Carl and the boys were out there every other night or whatever, giving their voices a thorough workout, while Brian only occasionally sang in the studio. There was no way he'd be able to keep up, right? Use it or lose it

I was thinking this as well. I'm sure that's why Carl's voice stayed stronger.

I feel like no one has mentioned that a lot of what we have of Brian's vocals from around this period are either demos or went unused. "Break Away" is a scratch vocal meant only as a placeholder, "Awake" is a demo, "Where Is She?" is very likely a demo, the bit of Brian vocal on the new acapella "This Whole World" could easily be a scratch vocal (it sure doesn't sound like a full on attempt given that it's single-tracked).

I feel this is relevant, y'know? You're demoing something for someone else to sing, you're probably not gonna put your heart and soul into the performance and try to do your best.

Great points, runnerz. These weren't finished things. Maybe "Where Is She?" was more than a demo, maybe it wasn't , but regardless, all the rest were likely not for public consumption at the time, and Brian likely wasn't interested in getting a "releasable" vocal.

I've posted it a few times recently but I really liked Brian's voice in 1981-82. I can't explain it but it was different, or unique. I guess I was just so happy to hear that it was still intact and strong. Keep in mind that Brian went two albums - L.A.(Light Album) and Keepin' The Summer Alive - WITHOUT A LEAD VOCAL!!!

I actually agree with you Sheriff. I might even stretch back to 1980. His voice, '80 through '82 was pretty enjoyable. Sometimes live, he did sound a bit "lounge singerish," but overall I've enjoyed what I've heard as long as it was in his range (obviously he shouldn't have been doing "Don't Worry Baby" in the original key). I also like his vocal on "Stevie" quite a bit. He obviously didn't sound a bit like he did in the '60s, but his vocal had character and I feel it was well sung. Just a different kinda vocal then Brian used to do. Actually, I think "Stevie" is a song that should be considered if they ever do another vault project.

I've never heard that version of WDFFIL!

Really? I'm kinda surprised! You know he produced it right?

[Mikie]

Billy's heard it.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Or is about to...

[MBE]

I still think Where Is She is terrific. Plus yes Brian's vocals on demos are less polished than a normal studio take. So what?

He had a terrific voice until he hit his thirties and slightly beyond. Man what a special voice I hear on this track, sorry for those who miss it because it's not coming from the 180 pound 19 year old who cut Lonely Sea.

[Jay]

*I'm sure 1982 was worse, but it's not like was singing either.

Speaking of, I've been meaning to upload this.

Here's what Brian sounded like in 1982:

https://soundcloud.com/smile-a-d/gok-82-brian-lead

I love this version. Brian's delivery is so passionate, like he really means it. He must have been in a good mood or something that night. Listen to him hit those high notes! He even continues until the very end of the song, in almost a whisper. World's beyond the Long Beach version.

[Jim V.]

I still think Where Is She is terrific. Plus yes Brian's vocals on demos are less polished than a normal studio take. So what?

He had a terrific voice until he hit his thirties and slightly beyond. Man what a special voice I hear on this track, sorry for those who miss it because it's not coming from the 180 pound 19 year old who cut Lonely Sea.

Sounds like you're kinda taking this a bit personal Mike. It's just a topic of discussion. I for one really like "Where Is She?" and I feel extremely lucky that we are able to hear it. I think it's a really great song and it should've been released back in the day, it's that good.

However, I just brought this topic up because the man does sound different then he did early in his career. He just does. Is it less enjoyable? In the case of this song, no, but in the case of "Awake," kinda, just because it's a bit too shrill for my tastes.

And for the most part I do agree with you that most of The Beach Boys work after 1974 isn't as good as the stuff from '62 to '74. However, I don't chalk this up to Brian's vocal changes like some do. I just think a lot of the material that he and the others wrote just wasn't up to par from the mid '70s and on. However, I do think Brian came up with the goods for his material for L.A., his first solo album, and TWGMTR. I think when he brought the goods, single wise, the material did well. Which is why "It's OK", "Almost Summer" and "Good Timin'" did well on the charts. I don't think the vocals really ruined or hampered any of the the group or Brian's stuff. I don't think that Keepin' The Summer Alive or Sweet Insanity would've been much better at all with '60s style vocals from Brian. And I think his vocals on stuff like "She Says That She Needs Me", "Listen to Me", "From There To Back Again", "That's Why God Made The Radio" and "Summer's Gone" among others are great, worthy of the name Brian Wilson. I guess my point is I see Brian as a great artist and singer still, whereas some see him as a museum piece who was great from '62 to '73ish but mostly an embarrassment since.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Heck, for the most part I LIKE his 'rough' vocals!

[MBE]

I guess my 1962 crack was a little harsher than I meant it to sound. Not meant to be close to personal, I myself simply don't get what others are hearing here. Only thing I am trying to say is that I don't expect anyone at 19-21 or so to sound exactly the same as 28-30. Brian has done some great work since 1973-74, but he was a special singer before. A good singer at times since, very emotional at moments, but man I miss how the sound of his voice could really get me. In 1969-71 he still has that undefinable "it" to his voice. A very unique quality.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Notice how Brian's voice voice in 1982 on GOK, at his absolute nadir physically... wasn't nearly as raspy as in 1976!

[Mike's Beard]

I might be in the minority on this, but I actually prefer Dennis' post 74 vocals. To imagine him singing something like "Farewell My Friend" or "Moonshine" with his pre-74 vocals is impossible. Aside from the timbre, he achieved something truly soulful in his vocals in the mid to late 70's that is lacking in his earlier vocals.

While I don't prefer Dennis' post-1974 vocals, I do agree with you about "Farewell My Friend", Moonshine" - and "Thoughts Of You". And "Time". And "End Of The Show". You can feel his pain, his loss. But, while Dennis could still excel in those types of songs, he started to struggle in some of the other songs. It's a matter of opinion, but I'm not overly fond of "In The Still Of The Night", Mona", and partly "I Wanna Pick You Up". Some of those Bambu tracks are rough, too.

I half agree with both of you. I prefer the rougher Dennis voice but only like the Sherrif said, on his own songs. His vocals for Love You and 15 Big Ones sound bad, bad, bad. He was no longer a versatile singer. And by Bambu the game was pretty much up.

[MBE]

Notice how Brian's voice voice in 1982 on GOK, at his absolute nadir physically... wasn't nearly as raspy as in 1976!

Yeah this is how he sounded on the cocaine tapes. For what it's worth an "on" Brian vocal from 1975-82 has a lot of heart to it, emotion in his style I don't always hear later. That said when he was off during the same period, well it's just sad.

I will say I don't hear MIU Brian on Rollin Up To Heaven, but weirdly do on California Feeling 1974. Just seems like a big change in a matter of days.

[seltaeb1012002]

Notice how Brian's voice voice in 1982 on GOK, at his absolute nadir physically... wasn't nearly as raspy as in 1976!

Yeah this is how he sounded on the cocaine tapes. For what it's worth an "on" Brian vocal from 1975-82 has a lot of heart to it, emotion in his style I don't always hear later. That said when he was off during the same period, well it's just sad.

I will say I don't hear MIU Brian on Rollin Up To Heaven, but weirdly do on California Feeling 1974. Just seems like a big change in a matter of days.

I hear that. That said, there's no way he could've sounded that good in the falsetto range in '77. There are a few moments where he sings soft and sounds exactly like Sunflower Brian. But yeah, Rollin Up To Heaven is pretty rock solid. Sounds like he's giving it a pretty serious go on the falsetto part. For the hell of it, since it's the same part over and over, I synced up a few moments to see what a double tracked '74 Brian would sound like. There's a fullness there that almost harkens back to mid 60's Brian, as opposed to Sunflower era.

This guy and all his voices.   

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Notice how good his falsetto was on for the MIC version of RNR Music. Or the boxed set version of the 1978 CF!

I think by now we can safely draw the line with Rollin being the last old school BW vocal. 1974 seems to be a harbinger in other ways as well...the start of him being more of an oldies guy rather than the adventurer he had been previously (although one can say that process began in 1972 with Spring).

[James Hughes-Clarke]

I wonder if Brian had She's Leaving Home on his mind when he was writing Where is She?  Same tempo, 3/4 time, similar subject matter.  Just a thought...

[Joel Goldenberg]

Heck, for the most part I LIKE his 'rough' vocals!

The only Brian vocals I find difficult to listen to are on songs like I'm So Lonely, from '84-'85.

[Joel Goldenberg]

*I'm sure 1982 was worse, but it's not like was singing either.

Speaking of, I've been meaning to upload this.

Here's what Brian sounded like in 1982:

https://soundcloud.com/smile-a-d/gok-82-brian-lead

On that 1982 God Only Knows, which is indeed MUCH better than the 1981 Long Beach performance( which I thought wasn't too bad), Brian sounds a bit like he's trying to imitate Carl. The wavery note at the beginning sounds slightlly like drunk Australia Carl from '78, but it gets better quickly.

Brian sounds a lot like Burl Ives there.

[superunison]

I have been wanting to make a thread on this topic for a while now. For a long time I thought the same thing about Brian's "shrill" falsetto on the Sunflower tracks. But over time I've come to believe that what I'm hearing is actually just the way that they recorded Brian's voice on certain tracks, an aesthetic decision, combined with different equipment at the home studio. I think it's something that should be asked in the Desper thread. The warm reverb of the past is replaced with a drier sound, and it almost seems as if they were letting those higher (probably louder) notes go to tape "hot". Possibly also EQed so that they would sit in the mix in a new way.

[Jim V.]

I have been wanting to make a thread on this topic for a while now. For a long time I thought the same thing about Brian's "shrill" falsetto on the Sunflower tracks. But over time I've come to believe that what I'm hearing is actually just the way that they recorded Brian's voice on certain tracks, an aesthetic decision, combined with different equipment at the home studio. I think it's something that should be asked in the Desper thread. The warm reverb of the past is replaced with a drier sound, and it almost seems as if they were letting those higher (probably louder) notes go to tape "hot". Possibly also EQed so that they would sit in the mix in a new way.

I agree with you to an extent, superunison, but you also have to admit that there is no doubt that by 1969/1970 Brian's voice had changed a little bit.