The Beach Boys in 1981 - What were they thinking?

[tpesky]

Brian could have sang "Don't Worry, Baby" totally fine if they'd just changed the damn key.

He sounded great singing it in 1998 on the Imagination DVD and in 2000 on the Live at the Roxy album.

It was in a lower key on both of those instances. And yes, I'd prefer that to Foskett. On the other hand, I have to imagine that Brian wants it done in the original way ...

Ya I think Brian wanted to stop singing the song so they went with his wishes.  I think that's why you got Al back on the lead on WIBN ( with help from Jeff) The only other time I have heard Al sing WIBN in the past 25 years was when he shared the lead with Brian in '06 so I gotta think that's Brian preferring Al sing that song.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Apologies for the confusing bit about the Chinese fire drill.  I always thought it weird that they did all that on "Help Me Rhonda".  At its most encompassing, Bruce would play bass, Brian would switch to Bruce's electric piano, Dennis would get on Brian's piano, Bobby or whoever would take over the drums, and Carter would switch from bass to lead guitar.  Things would vary, depending on who was in attendance and I still don't know what the point was. 

Total speculation on my part, but I always thought "the switches" were just to break things up a bit, both for the band AND the audience. For the band, it gave each guy who switched a chance to "break things up" (and, during those years, they did at times appear bored) and display their multi-instrumental talents, maybe show off a bit.

As an audience member, I loved the switches. You got to see Brian and Dennis stand, walk around, banter a bit. You got to see them at different angles. It gave you something else to focus on other than staring at the same positions/angles for two hours. And let's be honest, they weren't the most active, dynamic stage performers so the change was good.

[c-man]

Not to confuse you more, but...if it was an '81 show without Carl, Ed Carter would have been on lead guitar, not bass, and Ernie Knapp was the bassist.  Jeff Foskett came into Mike's orbit around '79 or so, but the first time he played with the Beach Boys onstage was that Sun City engagement in late December of '81 into early January of '82.

And, the MIC live version of "Rhonda" has Blondie Chaplin on lead, and Eddie on bass (same as the Crystal Palace video that's circulating from earlier that year).

[Phoenix]

As I said, I won't swear by Foskett being there.  I've seen mine and others' memories proven wrong on several occasions, with this being another one.      But as far as "Help Me Rhonda".....

I'd never in a million years think to doubt you, Craig.   In fact I was just telling a friend about how nice it is that guys like you, Jon, etc. visit this board and help make it what it is (in the best of times, that is ).  That said...I always thought the solo on the In Concert version of "Rhonda" sounded more rippin' than both Carl and Blondie's usual solos.  Coupled with the fact that Ed took lead on just that one song at shows where he otherwise played bass throughout (not to mention the Priess book making note of the bass lines from Ed Carter and Carl), I eventually pegged it as Ed.  Being a HUGE fan of the Blondie & Ricky era, I nearly fell over at your mention of a Crystal Palace video and JUMPED at Google to check it out.  Silly me.  I'd obviously seen it before and should have known by the way you mentioned it so casually.  I just never knew the name of the venue. 

Anyway, I figured I'd watch it because why not, right? Also, I figured it would either help settle the matter for me or possibly make me wonder more, in the off chance you could have been mistaken.  After all, this comes from the same source as the "Wild Honey" clip and we know what an editing nightmare that one is, with people switching instruments between seconds.  As I figured you were totally right.  While we can't see who's playing the solo, Ed is definitely on bass with Carl, Al, Blondie, and Billy on guitars and since it sounds like Blondie, it is more than likely him playing it.  But that's the thing: In the video clip it DOES sound like Blondie AND sounds very different than the one on In Concert, which features way more confident sounding string bends, much higher on the neck.  The one in the video is much more "loose" and bluesier.  I know it's very possible these guys changed up their style some from one performance to the next, especially since they were playing those solos off the top of their heads but there is something else to consider. 

Comparing this performance with others from the same era, Dennis, Carl, and Alan all took turns at the lead vocal.  And using just four examples (MIC, Carnegie Hall, Crystal Palace, and In Concert), we have the solo played all the way through on piano by Billy, all the way through on the piano by Daryl, one half way through (tho the video could be edited) with just guitar, presumably played by Blondie (with Billy on guitar, no less), and one where the first half is piano, played by Billy, followed by a (quite scorching) guitar solo.  Given the numerous permeations the song went through (and that’s just within that year or so), I just have to say I’m not 100% convinced that’s not Ed playing guitar on the In Concert version. 

Please don’t take this as a slight against your incredible knowledge of the instrumental minutia some of us love so much.    It’s just a rather stubborn a quest to find out the absolute truth.  And until I see it myself (as noted even memories of the actual show could prove tricky) I probably won’t be convinced. 


***  Edit:  And now that I see you said MIC and not In Concert in the above post, I feel like an idiot for "challenging" your statement.  But hey, while I have your attention, and since it's been debated before... What do you think about the one on In Concert? 

[Mike's Beard]

I was 22 at that time and got to witness the Beach Boys at close range (backstage). I asked Bruce later why did you guys let Brian sing Dont Worry Baby? Bruce said what do you mean? It's Brian's song!

There was a group of us fans at the time that thought they were trying to shame Brian into straightening up. As I got older, what really upset me about this time is that the group, for the first time, didn't give a damn about there fans. Ohterwise, they would have stopped and regrouped. But they just plowed on. Also, it was around this time Mike declared bankruptcy, so that played a factor I am sure.

How does someone who was earning Mike's kind of money end up bankrupt?

[MBE]

Divorces

[c-man]

As I said, I won't swear by Foskett being there.  I've seen mine and others' memories proven wrong on several occasions, with this being another one.      But as far as "Help Me Rhonda".....

I'd never in a million years think to doubt you, Craig.  In fact I was just telling a friend about how nice it is that guys like you, Jon, etc. visit this board and help make it what it is (in the best of times, that is ).  That said...I always thought the solo on the In Concert version of "Rhonda" sounded more rippin' than both Carl and Blondie's usual solos.  Coupled with the fact that Ed took lead on just that one song at shows where he otherwise played bass throughout (not to mention the Priess book making note of the bass lines from Ed Carter and Carl), I eventually pegged it as Ed.  Being a HUGE fan of the Blondie & Ricky era, I nearly fell over at your mention of a Crystal Palace video and JUMPED at Google to check it out.  Silly me.  I'd obviously seen it before and should have known by the way you mentioned it so casually.  I just never knew the name of the venue.  

Anyway, I figured I'd watch it because why not, right? Also, I figured it would either help settle the matter for me or possibly make me wonder more, in the off chance you could have been mistaken.  After all, this comes from the same source as the "Wild Honey" clip and we know what an editing nightmare that one is, with people switching instruments between seconds.  As I figured you were totally right.  While we can't see who's playing the solo, Ed is definitely on bass with Carl, Al, Blondie, and Billy on guitars and since it sounds like Blondie, it is more than likely him playing it.  But that's the thing: In the video clip it DOES sound like Blondie AND sounds very different than the one on In Concert, which features way more confident sounding string bends, much higher on the neck.  The one in the video is much more "loose" and bluesier.  I know it's very impossible these guys changed up their style some from one performance to the next, especially since they were playing those solos off the top of their heads but there is something else to consider.  

Comparing this performance with others from the same era, Dennis, Carl, and Alan all took turns at the lead vocal.  And using just four examples (MIC, Carnegie Hall, Crystal Palace, and In Concert), we have the solo played all the way through on piano by Billy, all the way through on the piano by Daryl, one half way through (tho the video could be edited) with just guitar, presumably played by Blondie (with Billy on guitar, no less), and one where the first half is piano, played by Billy, followed by a (quite scorching) guitar solo.  Given the numerous permeations the song went through (and that’s just within that year or so), I just have to say I’m not 100% convinced that’s not Ed playing guitar on the In Concert version.  

Please don’t take this as a slight against your incredible knowledge of the instrumental minutia some of us love so much.    It’s just a rather stubborn a quest to find out the absolute truth.  And until I see it myself (as noted even memories of the actual show could prove tricky) I probably won’t be convinced.  


***  Edit:  And now that I see you said MIC and not In Concert in the above post, I feel like an idiot for "challenging" your statement.  But hey, while I have your attention, and since it's been debated before... What do you think about the one on In Concert?  

No apologies necessary, Phoenix...just going from memory, I beleive you're right about the "In Concert" Rhonda guitar solo being far more "scorching".  I wonder if it was a studio overdub?  We might never know for sure, but I've always wondered if the Preiss statement about the Ed Carter and Carl Wilson bass lines means that Carl went back and replaced some of the live basslines with new studio bass tracks?  Anyways, Blondie and Eddie traded back and forth a lot between bass and lead, so the solo on that song may have been traded too.

[Phoenix]

Look at that.  A scholar AND a gentleman!  

Thanks so much for the reply!

[petsite]

I was 22 at that time and got to witness the Beach Boys at close range (backstage). I asked Bruce later why did you guys let Brian sing Dont Worry Baby? Bruce said what do you mean? It's Brian's song!

There was a group of us fans at the time that thought they were trying to shame Brian into straightening up. As I got older, what really upset me about this time is that the group, for the first time, didn't give a damn about there fans. Ohterwise, they would have stopped and regrouped. But they just plowed on. Also, it was around this time Mike declared bankruptcy, so that played a factor I am sure.

How does someone who was earning Mike's kind of money end up bankrupt?

Here is how:

The lawsuits, divorces, and Mike's extravagant life-style toppled him financially. In 1983 he filed for a Chapter 11
bankruptcy in the Central District Court of California. Among other debts Mike claimed $48,000 in taxes owed to the California
State Franchise Tax Board; a $100,000 loan secured against his properties in Santa Barbara and Incline Village; and at least
fifteen loans from various banks. Total debt to creditors holding security was $2,854,767. In all there were over a hundred
unsecured creditors, including exterminators, his answering service, his dentist (to whom he owed $28), and a telephone
bill for $1.16 from Nevada Bell. With the addition of several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees owed for divorces and
sundry lawsuits, the grand total came to $2,462,737.80 for unsecured debts to creditors.

In court papers Mike claimed immediate debts payable totaling $163,671.77. In a declaration by Pamela Ann Caughill,
his bookkeeper since August 1983, she stated, "Mr. Love has financed his lifestyle by extensive borrowing. All of the
properties he owns are fully mortgaged, and as a result, he has substantial monthly obligations. His monthly loan obligations
presently total $22,765.59... and his total monthly obligations are in excess of $50,000." Pamela Caughill said, "Mr.
Love's present financial circumstances are, to say the very least, desperate."

[Mike's Beard]

That's bad. It reminds me of legendary World Champ Ric Flair who should be a multi, multi millionaire ten times over but has spent every cent he ever earned and will be wrestling 'till he's 80.

[SMiLE Brian]

I wonder if the money problems of the 1980s are playing a factor in Mike's mind to keep touring in 2013.

[Michael Edwards Love]

Of course, that bankruptcy preceded the big songwriting settlement that he received in 1994.

[Nicko1234]

I wonder if the money problems of the 1980s are playing a factor in Mike's mind to keep touring in 2013.

The $50m he has now probably suggests not.

He needs the roar of the crowd and the sex of the young lovelies.

[c-man]

That's bad. It reminds me of legendary World Champ Ric Flair who should be a multi, multi millionaire ten times over but has spent every cent he ever earned and will be wrestling 'till he's 80.

It also reminds me of Mike's cousin Dennis.

[Rocky Raccoon]

I found more about the Sun City controversy in relation to the Beach Boys.
http://kora.matrix.msu.edu/files/50/304/32-130-1EF-84-african_activist_archive-a0a8f5-b_12419.pdf

It is shocking to see how many artists did play there, I guess this was before Steve Van Zandt really made it a nationwide concern, after all, Jimmy Cliff and the Temptations who are on the list did participate in the Artists Against Apartheid project a few years later, it's possible they weren't informed about what was really going on which is understandable.  Did the Beach Boys ever publicly acknowledge the controversy?  Or did they stand with Reagan as they seem to have been very supportive of him at the time.  Also they obviously were never a very politically charged group.

As a Beach Boys fan and also someone who's very interested in the history of apartheid in South Africa and people like Steve Biko and Nelson Mandela, I find this very intriguing.

[c-man]

Too bad that memo didn't mention the fact that the Beach Boys were once integrated with two black South African members themselves!  I wonder what would have happened if Blondie and Ricky hadn't already left the band by that time...would they have just boycotted the group's Sun City residency, or would they have quit entirely?  At the time, I remember thinking it odd that there really wasn't any fuss made in the press over the BBs' trip there (unlike that of Rod Stewart).  But an internal band split over the matter?  That would have surely made for some press!

[Magic Transistor Radio]

This is not so uncommon among millionaires. Especially young people who get rich over night. I just watched a documentary on professional athletes in the US who get paid millions of dollars. There are several reasons. Often times they are just foolish with their money, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars at clubs every week. Or they buy a mansion, several lake houses, 5 or 6 extravagant cars, etc. Plus money owed to women they have knocked up. But even many responsible people can run into problems of investing their money in bad business because they want to help their 'friends'. Or relatives and friends coming out of the wood work asking for financial help. Its hard to say no because how can you tell someone that you don't have the money. It can be hard to say no. Also, if you have a budget and bills and investments based on a certain income of lets say $20 million a year, and suddenly you are making $1 million, I am sure it is easier said than done to lower your budget that much. Especially when some bills you can't get rid of such as money owed to various women.

In any case, this was very eye opening to me. I have never made more than lower middle class wages and of course I have had some financial problems. But I have learned how to be fiscally responsible. Its harder when you think you have all the money in the world, then suddenly stop spending when you don't have the money coming in. I imagine that the Beach Boys were raking it in following Endless Summer into the Brian's Back tour of 76.

[Phoenix]

Too bad that memo didn't mention the fact that the Beach Boys were once integrated with two black South African members themselves!  I wonder what would have happened if Blondie and Ricky hadn't already left the band by that time...would they have just boycotted the group's Sun City residency, or would they have quit entirely?  At the time, I remember thinking it odd that there really wasn't any fuss made in the press over the BBs' trip there (unlike that of Rod Stewart).  But an internal band split over the matter?  That would have surely made for some press!

Maybe they would have nixed the idea, explained their feelings, and the band, now "enlightened", would have backed out.  I do agree they probably wouldn't have went for it.

[Phoenix]

I found more about the Sun City controversy in relation to the Beach Boys.
http://kora.matrix.msu.edu/files/50/304/32-130-1EF-84-african_activist_archive-a0a8f5-b_12419.pdf

It is shocking to see how many artists did play there, I guess this was before Steve Van Zandt really made it a nationwide concern, after all, Jimmy Cliff and the Temptations who are on the list did participate in the Artists Against Apartheid project a few years later, it's possible they weren't informed about what was really going on which is understandable.  Did the Beach Boys ever publicly acknowledge the controversy?  Or did they stand with Reagan as they seem to have been very supportive of him at the time.  Also they obviously were never a very politically charged group.

As a Beach Boys fan and also someone who's very interested in the history of apartheid in South Africa and people like Steve Biko and Nelson Mandela, I find this very intriguing.

It depends on the details.  Of the Temptations, I believe only Ruffin & Kendricks participated in Artists Against Apartheid.  More than likely, the Temptations played South Africa after those two had quit.  If not, they played there with them (relatively) long before it became a known issue.

[Mike's Beard]

This is not so uncommon among millionaires. Especially young people who get rich over night. I just watched a documentary on professional athletes in the US who get paid millions of dollars. There are several reasons. Often times they are just foolish with their money, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars at clubs every week. Or they buy a mansion, several lake houses, 5 or 6 extravagant cars, etc. Plus money owed to women they have knocked up. But even many responsible people can run into problems of investing their money in bad business because they want to help their 'friends'. Or relatives and friends coming out of the wood work asking for financial help. Its hard to say no because how can you tell someone that you don't have the money. It can be hard to say no. Also, if you have a budget and bills and investments based on a certain income of lets say $20 million a year, and suddenly you are making $1 million, I am sure it is easier said than done to lower your budget that much. Especially when some bills you can't get rid of such as money owed to various women.

In any case, this was very eye opening to me. I have never made more than lower middle class wages and of course I have had some financial problems. But I have learned how to be fiscally responsible. Its harder when you think you have all the money in the world, then suddenly stop spending when you don't have the money coming in. I imagine that the Beach Boys were raking it in following Endless Summer into the Brian's Back tour of 76.

I'm also reminded of Nicolas Cage, who because of money woes now has to make 20 shitty movies a year instead of his usual 2 or 3.

[Smile4ever]

The lawsuits, divorces, and Mike's extravagant life-style toppled him financially. In 1983 he filed for a Chapter 11
bankruptcy in the Central District Court of California. Among other debts Mike claimed $48,000 in taxes owed to the California
State Franchise Tax Board; a $100,000 loan secured against his properties in Santa Barbara and Incline Village; and at least
fifteen loans from various banks. Total debt to creditors holding security was $2,854,767. In all there were over a hundred
unsecured creditors, including exterminators, his answering service, his dentist (to whom he owed $28), and a telephone
bill for $1.16 from Nevada Bell. With the addition of several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees owed for divorces and
sundry lawsuits, the grand total came to $2,462,737.80 for unsecured debts to creditors.

In court papers Mike claimed immediate debts payable totaling $163,671.77. In a declaration by Pamela Ann Caughill,
his bookkeeper since August 1983, she stated, "Mr. Love has financed his lifestyle by extensive borrowing. All of the
properties he owns are fully mortgaged, and as a result, he has substantial monthly obligations. His monthly loan obligations
presently total $22,765.59... and his total monthly obligations are in excess of $50,000." Pamela Caughill said, "Mr.
Love's present financial circumstances are, to say the very least, desperate."

And this is why Mike doesn't want to "f*** with the formula," take artistic risks, and jeopardize his income.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

This is not so uncommon among millionaires. Especially young people who get rich over night. I just watched a documentary on professional athletes in the US who get paid millions of dollars. There are several reasons. Often times they are just foolish with their money, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars at clubs every week. Or they buy a mansion, several lake houses, 5 or 6 extravagant cars, etc. Plus money owed to women they have knocked up. But even many responsible people can run into problems of investing their money in bad business because they want to help their 'friends'. Or relatives and friends coming out of the wood work asking for financial help. Its hard to say no because how can you tell someone that you don't have the money. It can be hard to say no. Also, if you have a budget and bills and investments based on a certain income of lets say $20 million a year, and suddenly you are making $1 million, I am sure it is easier said than done to lower your budget that much. Especially when some bills you can't get rid of such as money owed to various women.

In any case, this was very eye opening to me. I have never made more than lower middle class wages and of course I have had some financial problems. But I have learned how to be fiscally responsible. Its harder when you think you have all the money in the world, then suddenly stop spending when you don't have the money coming in. I imagine that the Beach Boys were raking it in following Endless Summer into the Brian's Back tour of 76.

I'm also reminded of Nicolas Cage, who because of money woes now has to make 20 shitty movies a year instead of his usual 2 or 3.

I like most Nicolas Cage movies!

[b00ts]

The lawsuits, divorces, and Mike's extravagant life-style toppled him financially. In 1983 he filed for a Chapter 11
bankruptcy in the Central District Court of California. Among other debts Mike claimed $48,000 in taxes owed to the California
State Franchise Tax Board; a $100,000 loan secured against his properties in Santa Barbara and Incline Village; and at least
fifteen loans from various banks. Total debt to creditors holding security was $2,854,767. In all there were over a hundred
unsecured creditors, including exterminators, his answering service, his dentist (to whom he owed $28), and a telephone
bill for $1.16 from Nevada Bell. With the addition of several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees owed for divorces and
sundry lawsuits, the grand total came to $2,462,737.80 for unsecured debts to creditors.

In court papers Mike claimed immediate debts payable totaling $163,671.77. In a declaration by Pamela Ann Caughill,
his bookkeeper since August 1983, she stated, "Mr. Love has financed his lifestyle by extensive borrowing. All of the
properties he owns are fully mortgaged, and as a result, he has substantial monthly obligations. His monthly loan obligations
presently total $22,765.59... and his total monthly obligations are in excess of $50,000." Pamela Caughill said, "Mr.
Love's present financial circumstances are, to say the very least, desperate."

And this is why Mike doesn't want to "f*** with the formula," take artistic risks, and jeopardize his income.

Wow... I think you just stumbled on the answer to a perpetual Mike Love mystery around these parts.

How could he go from his artistic high of the early 1970s (Holland) to the crass commercialism of Summer in Paradise? And why is he so obsessed with commerciality at the expense of art? Because he almost lost everything in the early 80s.

[MBE]

It goes back further to when Mike had all his possessions thrown onto the lawn when he got his girlfriend pregnant at 18.  Plus his dad losing a small fortune at around the same time left scars. I think Mike saw a new security in 1974 and went for it. He realized their needed to be balance at first but from 1981-2003 most of his shows were oldies centered. Thankfully he has stepped it up too, but man the eighties and nineties were brutal outside of the box set tour, a few interesting sets in 1988, and I guess 1980 as a whole was better than the next 20 odd years.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

The lawsuits, divorces, and Mike's extravagant life-style toppled him financially. In 1983 he filed for a Chapter 11
bankruptcy in the Central District Court of California. Among other debts Mike claimed $48,000 in taxes owed to the California
State Franchise Tax Board; a $100,000 loan secured against his properties in Santa Barbara and Incline Village; and at least
fifteen loans from various banks. Total debt to creditors holding security was $2,854,767. In all there were over a hundred
unsecured creditors, including exterminators, his answering service, his dentist (to whom he owed $28), and a telephone
bill for $1.16 from Nevada Bell. With the addition of several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees owed for divorces and
sundry lawsuits, the grand total came to $2,462,737.80 for unsecured debts to creditors.

In court papers Mike claimed immediate debts payable totaling $163,671.77. In a declaration by Pamela Ann Caughill,
his bookkeeper since August 1983, she stated, "Mr. Love has financed his lifestyle by extensive borrowing. All of the
properties he owns are fully mortgaged, and as a result, he has substantial monthly obligations. His monthly loan obligations
presently total $22,765.59... and his total monthly obligations are in excess of $50,000." Pamela Caughill said, "Mr.
Love's present financial circumstances are, to say the very least, desperate."

And this is why Mike doesn't want to "f*** with the formula," take artistic risks, and jeopardize his income.

Wow... I think you just stumbled on the answer to a perpetual Mike Love mystery around these parts.

How could he go from his artistic high of the early 1970s (Holland) to the crass commercialism of Summer in Paradise? And why is he so obsessed with commerciality at the expense of art? Because he almost lost everything in the early 80s.

Commercialism of Summer in Paradise? Not so much. Perhaps if this was the album that came out in 89 with Kokomo? Hmmm, that might have been a hit album come to think of it.