Brian, Al, and David Tour 2013

[filledeplage]

I'm talking about his musical arrangements. I find it very enjoyable when they sound more like his original musical arrangements instead of more drastically downsized live renditions.

If you want to, we can pretend Mike was equally responsible for those and fought ferociously for more french horns.

It's just personal preference, I'm not claiming to speak for the common man or anything. I may be a rancid jerk and everything, but I quite prefer hearing "Wouldn't It Be Nice" the way Brian's band does it over Mike's. I understand this is possibly a flaw in my personality or at best a moral failing, as I know they both have the same exact act/setlist and everything done the same way with equally competent musicians that achieve Total Beach Boys Equivalency. But I rather like it when they have a guy with long hair racing around in the back scraping, plinking, and swatting at things to add the right percussive touches.

Admit it, Nelson is fun to watch! It's astonishing to watch such dedicated people try to recreate those sounds with every blarahonk and twang in place.

Nelson is fantastic to watch as is Cowsill.  Both have played in each respective band's seven player lineup.  And I don't think you are a rancid jerk. This is music discussion. People can have their viewpoints. So what. There is no equivalency rating and who really cares?

 But, have you heard the Touring Band's extended vocals on WIBN?  -"But, let's talk about it..." - They were doing that occasionally and with great audience response.

Each band has to figure out its own configuration and budget, and what works best for each.

[RubberSoul13]

Now I remember why I kept my mouth shut after C50.....you aren't allowed to have an opinion on this board.....

You go onto a BB board and praise Macca while actually writing "None of the beach boys have ever held a candle to his performance at any point in either career" and expect people to just nod? Folks here (including myself) can be prickly at times, but your comment was pretty darn provocative. And I'm glad you said it! But you'll hear about it, too.

The point of my comments weren't to bring McCartney into this, in retrospect it does reaed that way and I apologize. But, I'd like to do a comparison. My original beef was with the excess of band members. So we'll ignore WHO is in each clip and just LISTEN to them...

The Beach Boys (M&B) God Only Knows 2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv6GTO0unRs

Brian Wilson Band- God Only Knows 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txa69FSUG4g

---

Vocals: The lead vocals in the first clip are obviously much stronger and accurate than the second clip and I think it is a fair assessment to say that the first clip is the better sung version of the song.

Backups: The backup vox in the second clip are obviously much stronger but no more or less accurate than the first clip, it is just a fuller sound obviously due to the numbers at hand.

Guitars/Keys: These sound better in the second clip but the difference is not very large, it is again just a fuller sound obviously due to the numbers at hand.

Horn/Flute: The horns line does not sound that different between clips. However, the live flute is definitely better than the keyboarded flute.

Percussion: The percussion (except for someones distracting tambourine during verse one) in the first clip sounds just as good as the percussion in the second clip.

So my final thought? The first clip is the better of the two. The lead vocals make that much of a difference to me. The lead vocals in the second clip are slurred and distracting taking away from the beauty of the performance. But, it probably wouldn't hurt the first clip to consider one or two changes in their lineup.

[AndrewHickey]

Horn/Flute: The horns line does not sound that different between clips.

You really can't hear the difference between a real French horn and a cheap synth plugin, can you?

Guitars/Keys: These sound better in the second clip but the difference is not very large, it is again just a fuller sound obviously due to the numbers at hand.

Or count -- Nick on guitar, (presumably since we can't see them) Darian and Scott on keyboards, as opposed to Christian and Scott T on guitars and Bruce and Tim on keyboards.

Percussion: The percussion (except for someones distracting tambourine during verse one) in the first clip sounds just as good as the percussion in the second clip.

No, it simply doesn't. Cowsill does a very good job, but Cowsill on drums plus Mike whacking a tambourine hopelessly out of time does not match to a proper performance of the percussion part by three people.

I was at the gig in the first clip. It was a fantastic performance and I enjoyed every second. I don't want to take *one iota* of the credit away from Mike & Bruce's wonderful band. But they simply do not -- *cannot* -- perform the music from the Pet Sounds era as faithfully as Brian's band, and just saying they can won't change that.

[drbeachboy]

Before Brian's band came into existence, I never expected, nor wanted the live versions to sound like the record. Why bother to see them? I can save my money and just listen to the record or CD. Personally, I like live to sound live and different. Just like with In Concert, give me the live versions of Funky Pretty, Marcella and even Darlin' & Heroes and Villains. All are different and just as good in there own way as the studio versions. Different can be good.

[ontor pertawst]

Why bother to see them? I can save my money and just listen to the record or CD.

Because they are really pretty good and a fun night out? You could also just eat a burger that's meat and a bun. Still a burger and they might even be a great quality burger and bun, but adding metaphorical condiments and onions and bacon like great burgers you've had in the past make it tastier. Or not, you could prefer low frills, manager's special, 70%, pink slime burgers. Your burger! But I like onions and chunks of garlic in mine, thanks. I know it's more expensive and everything, but if I'm going to get the grill out and go through all the trouble... might as well do it right!

"So you're saying that Darian is bacon and Nelson is a mess of grilled onions?"

Uh... yes?



Fig. 4345. The real reason for my mangy metaphor.

It's all just personal preference. Also, now I'm ravenous and it's time for an early lunch.

[RubberSoul13]

Horn/Flute: The horns line does not sound that different between clips.

You really can't hear the difference between a real French horn and a cheap synth plugin, can you?

Guitars/Keys: These sound better in the second clip but the difference is not very large, it is again just a fuller sound obviously due to the numbers at hand.

Or count -- Nick on guitar, (presumably since we can't see them) Darian and Scott on keyboards, as opposed to Christian and Scott T on guitars and Bruce and Tim on keyboards.

Percussion: The percussion (except for someones distracting tambourine during verse one) in the first clip sounds just as good as the percussion in the second clip.

No, it simply doesn't. Cowsill does a very good job, but Cowsill on drums plus Mike whacking a tambourine hopelessly out of time does not match to a proper performance of the percussion part by three people.

I was at the gig in the first clip. It was a fantastic performance and I enjoyed every second. I don't want to take *one iota* of the credit away from Mike & Bruce's wonderful band. But they simply do not -- *cannot* -- perform the music from the Pet Sounds era as faithfully as Brian's band, and just saying they can won't change that.

So you CAN tolerate Brian slurring his lazy way through "God Only Knows" just so you can hear the damn claves click at the right time?

[drbeachboy]

Why bother to see them? I can save my money and just listen to the record or CD.

Because they are really pretty good and a fun night out? You could also just eat a burger that's meat and a bun. Still a burger and they might even be a great quality burger and bun, but adding metaphorical condiments and onions and bacon like great burgers you've had in the past make it tastier. Or not, you could prefer low frills, manager's special, 70%, pink slime burgers. Your burger! But I like onions and chunks of garlic in mine, thanks. I know it's more expensive and everything, but if I'm going to get the grill out and go through all the trouble... might as well do it right!

"So you're saying that Darian is bacon and Nelson is a mess of grilled onions?"

Uh... yes?



Fig. 4345. The real reason for my mangy metaphor.

You read the whole post, I hope? I am going to the Atlantic City show tomorrow night. Notice that  I said "Before Brian's band came into existence". I still prefer live to be different, but I can live with sounding like the record. My biggest complaint basically is that sometimes playing too close the record makes some songs lack that live energy. I guess it comes down to going to too many late 60's and 70's shows with all free-form going on.

[ontor pertawst]

Sure, I can agree with that. I'm a big fan of radically different interpretations of songs done live. I adore it when The Residents rip their back catalog apart.

But are you really going to claim the M&B band these days do amazing things with their rearrangements of the classics? Or anything like the 70s band rendition of H&V, say? If it's a choice between note perfect recreations of the records and exciting new versions with extra licks, crazy new instrumentation or entirely different feels... i'm all in! But that's not what we're talking about, is it? They aren't playing the songs like the 70s or doing new things with them. Are they? Someone post some vids, I don't see this as a titanic struggle between two camps where loyalty is required or I have to insist to be the voice of the common man or see Mike as the devil. I just like interesting music. So somebody post some!

Now, if there isn't any of that going on... then, yeah -- I like it when parts written for horns, woodwinds, and percussion are present. It's lush, gorgeous, and thrilling live. I'm glad you guys don't need such excessive fancy pants muso bullshit, but I just think it sounds richer. Not particularly a controversial opinion, I would think. Especially on a thread about Brian's tour.




I agree with Andrew, too. They need a string player or two or three or four. One incredibly talented cellist would be fantastic.

[drbeachboy]

I have only been to one M&B show, but have seen on TV and YouTube, etc. But yea, some of the faster tunes I like M&B better. On the whole though, I'd rather see BAD than M&B. This show will be a lot closer to last year's C50 shows than M&B shows will be.

[AndrewHickey]

So you CAN tolerate Brian slurring his lazy way through "God Only Knows" just so you can hear the damn claves click at the right time?

Yep, that's definitely what I said when I was arguing that Brian shouldn't sack his backing musicians. It was definitely an argument that Brian is a better singer than Bruce, not at all an argument that French horns and flutes sound better than synth patches or that Brian should not sack his one permanent guitarist just because he's got Al Jardine playing with him for four shows. I was definitely arguing that Brian's vocals are always good...

Or at least my argument was as close to that as those synth patches are to the sound of real French horns, so obviously close enough for you...

[AndrewHickey]

Sure, I can agree with that. I'm a big fan of radically different interpretations of songs done live. I adore it when The Residents rip their back catalog apart.

Absolutely. But there's a difference between rearranging something inventively and just stripping it down to two guitars, bass, drums and keyboards. Going for the default option is the opposite of interesting. (And I know you're not arguing otherwise).

[RubberSoul13]

So you CAN tolerate Brian slurring his lazy way through "God Only Knows" just so you can hear the damn claves click at the right time?

Yep, that's definitely what I said when I was arguing that Brian shouldn't sack his backing musicians. It was definitely an argument that Brian is a better singer than Bruce, not at all an argument that French horns and flutes sound better than synth patches or that Brian should not sack his one permanent guitarist just because he's got Al Jardine playing with him for four shows. I was definitely arguing that Brian's vocals are always good...

Or at least my argument was as close to that as those synth patches are to the sound of real French horns, so obviously close enough for you...

Well I just found it convenient for you that you didn't bring that point up. Probably because you know that part IS the most important point, but you'd rather bicker over a flute here and there.

[AndrewHickey]

So you CAN tolerate Brian slurring his lazy way through "God Only Knows" just so you can hear the damn claves click at the right time?

Yep, that's definitely what I said when I was arguing that Brian shouldn't sack his backing musicians. It was definitely an argument that Brian is a better singer than Bruce, not at all an argument that French horns and flutes sound better than synth patches or that Brian should not sack his one permanent guitarist just because he's got Al Jardine playing with him for four shows. I was definitely arguing that Brian's vocals are always good...

Or at least my argument was as close to that as those synth patches are to the sound of real French horns, so obviously close enough for you...

Well I just found it convenient for you that you didn't bring that point up. Probably because you know that part IS the most important point, but you'd rather bicker over a flute here and there.

I didn't bring it up because *your* whole argument, all along, has been that Brian should sack half his band, and I was responding to that. Unless you know some way that sacking his band will magically cure Brian's neurological problems and make him stop slurring his words, it has nothing to do with the discussion, does it?

[Rocky Raccoon]

While I might agree on other songs, Bruce doesn't hold a candle to Brian when it comes to singing "God Only Knows."  I mean, neither of the performances posted above can be called great performances but here's a clip from the same year of Brian singing "God Only Knows" on the Jools Holland show and I think he sings it beautifully. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC66SoqBv6M

[ontor pertawst]

Definitely, when Brian's on he's on and it's incredible. Plus having the fella who came up with that magic progression doing it has to count for something.

But to throw Mr Shorts a bone, god it was nice hearing him on the fade during the C50 shows. I never cared for "Disney Girls" and think mics should be adjusted a maximum of twice per song, but that was one hell of a fade. I got something in my eye like a big baby at the Hollywood Bowl show during that.

[RubberSoul13]

So you CAN tolerate Brian slurring his lazy way through "God Only Knows" just so you can hear the damn claves click at the right time?

Yep, that's definitely what I said when I was arguing that Brian shouldn't sack his backing musicians. It was definitely an argument that Brian is a better singer than Bruce, not at all an argument that French horns and flutes sound better than synth patches or that Brian should not sack his one permanent guitarist just because he's got Al Jardine playing with him for four shows. I was definitely arguing that Brian's vocals are always good...

Or at least my argument was as close to that as those synth patches are to the sound of real French horns, so obviously close enough for you...

Well I just found it convenient for you that you didn't bring that point up. Probably because you know that part IS the most important point, but you'd rather bicker over a flute here and there.

I didn't bring it up because *your* whole argument, all along, has been that Brian should sack half his band, and I was responding to that. Unless you know some way that sacking his band will magically cure Brian's neurological problems and make him stop slurring his words, it has nothing to do with the discussion, does it?

I tried to neutralize things and present two clips that we could analyze for a fair comparison of the groups. The lead vocalists play a large role in that. I even said I wasn't factoring in WHO was making the music just how it was being made.

And good Lord that Jools Holland clip was terrible. Not to mention there was NO percussion...

I agree, that fade with Bruce on it sounds the best. I'm not sure why he got the role of singing "God Only Knows" in their show...anybody shed some light?

[AndrewHickey]

I tried to neutralize things and present two clips that we could analyze for a fair comparison of the groups. The lead vocalists play a large role in that. I even said I wasn't factoring in WHO was making the music just how it was being made.

What you said, actually, was:

"My original beef was with the excess of band members. So we'll ignore WHO is in each clip and just LISTEN to them..."

And you still haven't explained how Brian slurring a couple of words means he has an "excess of band members" -- or how getting rid of them would be any improvement to anything at all...

[RubberSoul13]

I tried to neutralize things and present two clips that we could analyze for a fair comparison of the groups. The lead vocalists play a large role in that. I even said I wasn't factoring in WHO was making the music just how it was being made.

What you said, actually, was:

"My original beef was with the excess of band members. So we'll ignore WHO is in each clip and just LISTEN to them..."

And you still haven't explained how Brian slurring a couple of words means he has an "excess of band members" -- or how getting rid of them would be any improvement to anything at all...

When did I EVER say the two had anything in common?

The first verse alone of that Jools Holland clip is far beyond cringeworthy. There are downright wrong notes, not even that much slurring. Now the second verse, is slur city. He can't hit about half of those notes anymore and even the rhythm gets a little spotty on the last verse. And I think that giant band of fantastic and fresh voices just makes his stick out even worse. How's that for tying things together!

[Rocky Raccoon]

Bruce can't hit those notes either.

[RubberSoul13]

Bruce can't hit those notes either.

Actually, he can. This clip sounds better than either of the two I posted before. His voice is so strong, yet still sweet and there isn't a single flub. AND they gave Mike some sleigh bells instead of a tambourine and it sounds MUCH better. I'm actually a bit shocked at how nice this sounds.

Mike & Bruce- God Only Knows- 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh-8COzgDAs

[Wirestone]

Bruce can't hit those notes either.

Actually, he can. This clip sounds better than either of the two I posted before. His voice is so strong, yet still sweet and there isn't a single flub. AND they gave Mike some sleigh bells instead of a tambourine and it sounds MUCH better. I'm actually a bit shocked at how nice this sounds.

Mike & Bruce- God Only Knows- 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh-8COzgDAs

Then don't watch Brian butcher the songs (which he doesn't, but whatever), and enjoy Mike and Bruce's thrilling live work. Actually, enjoy McCartney's, given his clear and ongoing superiority as a live performer to anyone else who has ever dared sing in public.

[ontor pertawst]

Speaking of hypothetical butchering of songs -- attention any other people going to the first gig tomorrow. You're going to post about it, right? Yes? You're not? I'll set your lawn on fire. Anybody splurging for VIP, I want juicy soundcheck details. What was Al pushing for that was politely rehearsed then rejected? I wanna know.

[Wah Wah Wah Ooooo]

I can't believe there's even any kind of debate about which band sounds better on Pet Sounds material. Brian's band blows The Mikesters out of the water on that kind of material, and the number of people in his band is pretty much the single greatest reason why they do so.  If your talking about voices, Brian's, even with some flubs, is more enjoyable to my ears than Bruce's ANY day. Bruce has no personality in his voice. At all. It's a nice voice and he sings well mostly, but it's bland and boring, in my opinion. But the bands, yeah, Mike's doesn't hold a candle to Brian's, and I don't even think that's subjective, really.

Rubbersoul, you didn't study the art of debating or anything, did you?  You seem to be out of you element slightly (or not so slightly).

[AndrewHickey]

AND they gave Mike some sleigh bells instead of a tambourine and it sounds MUCH better.

Yep, I particularly like the way he just keeps playing the same rhythm he plays throughout while all the rest of the band are playing the staccato section. Adds that touch of incompetence the song's always needed...

[Wah Wah Wah Ooooo]

Oh, and that Jools Holland clip is FANTASTIC. That's one of the best non-Carl Wilson versions of that song I've ever heard. Brian's voice is so beautiful in that clip. Thanks for sharing.