Student Demonstration Time

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I personally always saw it in a rather cynical way. This is just them trying to cash in on the current climate. To me it stinks of desperation, like the disco HCTN. I'm just thankful they never made a punk record.

[drbeachboy]

I personally always saw it in a rather cynical way. This is just them trying to cash in on the current climate. To me it stinks of desperation, like the disco HCTN. I'm just thankful they never made a punk record.

Had you lived through those times, I doubt that you would feel that way. Plus, at that point in their career, at least here in the U.S., there was no cashing in on anything.

[TMinthePM]

Let us hope that any future attempts at social comment are submitted to the appropriate committee for ideological purity of intent before being unleashed upon an unsuspecting public.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I personally always saw it in a rather cynical way. This is just them trying to cash in on the current climate. To me it stinks of desperation, like the disco HCTN. I'm just thankful they never made a punk record.

Had you lived through those times, I doubt that you would feel that way

I probably would. I'm a naturally cynical person.

[drbeachboy]

Let us hope that any future attempts at social comment are submitted to the appropriate committee for ideological purity of intent before being unleashed upon an unsuspecting public.

Folks like certain aspects of their career. I can understand why some don't like it. A lot of people pigeonhole their singing style and music type and only want that. My biggest issue in here with the song is/was the misunderstanding the meaning of the lyric.

[SMiLE Brian]

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[TMinthePM]

As this thread degenerates into a Mike Love Hate Fest I'm bailing out.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

They were desperately unhip, and trying to be relevant. This is why you're getting the eco songs, the social commentary songs and the coke songs. Its well documented that this album was all about Jack Riely trying to get them relevant again

Mike could change his clothes and politics at the drop of a hat, depending on which way the wind was blowing. Nothing wrong with that, basic survival instincts.

But you'll have to forgive this grumpy old cynic if he doesn't take any socially aware message of Mike Love's  seriously. (Plus I hate the music)

As this thread degenerates into a Mike Love Hate Fest I'm bailing out.

Last thing I want also, but commenting on Mike's ability to change with the times, and adopting social commentary as a career move is hardly an attack is it?  He's had a 50 year career in music and I haven't. Enough said.

[TMinthePM]

A shallow appreciation of SU.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

A shallow appreciation of SU.

Oh well, I'm obviously a shallow person then 

[drbeachboy]

They were desperately unhip, and trying to be relevant. This is why you're getting the eco songs, the social commentary songs and the coke songs. Its well documented that this album was all about Jack Riely trying to get them relevant again

Mike could change his clothes and politics at the drop of a hat, depending on which way the wind was blowing. Nothing wrong with that, basic survival instincts.

But you'll have to forgive this grumpy old cynic if he doesn't take any socially aware message of Mike Love's  seriously. (Plus I hate the music)

As this thread degenerates into a Mike Love Hate Fest I'm bailing out.

Last thing I want also, but commenting on Mike's ability to change with the times, and adopting social commentary as a career move is hardly an attack is it?  He's had a 50 year career in music and I haven't. Enough said.

Stephen, that's  bullshit and you know it. It is not like they sang about that stuff and didn't follow through, especially, Mike & Al with ecological concerns. Ok, so they wrote one stinking protest song. At least it concerned a topic going on all too many times. This is the kind of stuff that annoys me where opinion gets in the way fact. You continue to let your opinion make you cynical, when others who lived through it here in the U.S. try to tell you how it was during those times.

[SMiLE Brian]

A shallow appreciation of SU.

Oh well, I'm obviously a shallow person then 

I agree with you Steven, all that effort from the group to seem hip, while Brian barely shows up on the album and has the songs people remember.

[TMinthePM]

"Oh well, I'm obviously a shallow person then  Smiley"

I sincerely apologize if I came across hurtfully, Mr. N.

Please believe me when I say that I do not consider you a "shallow person."

In fact, I am in accord with much that you have to say and don't always take the time to signal that.

I will think twice in the future before letting out a shallow remark of my own.

Back to topic: I can't agree in viewing SU as a mere marketing strategy.

[drbeachboy]

A shallow appreciation of SU.

Oh well, I'm obviously a shallow person then  

I agree with you Steven, all that effort from the group to seem hip, while Brian barely shows up on the album and has the songs people remember.

What are you talking about? Songs like Feel Flows, Disney Girls and even Long Promised Road are well remembered, even sung by other artists and songs used on soundtracks. You really need think before you write, we readers would surely appreciate it.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

They were desperately unhip, and trying to be relevant. This is why you're getting the eco songs, the social commentary songs and the coke songs. Its well documented that this album was all about Jack Riely trying to get them relevant again

Mike could change his clothes and politics at the drop of a hat, depending on which way the wind was blowing. Nothing wrong with that, basic survival instincts.

But you'll have to forgive this grumpy old cynic if he doesn't take any socially aware message of Mike Love's  seriously. (Plus I hate the music)

As this thread degenerates into a Mike Love Hate Fest I'm bailing out.

Last thing I want also, but commenting on Mike's ability to change with the times, and adopting social commentary as a career move is hardly an attack is it?  He's had a 50 year career in music and I haven't. Enough said.

Stephen, that bullshit and you know it.

No, I honestly meant what I said. But it's not an attack on Mike. It is my opinion that he wanted to stay relevant to keep his career going. Good for him!

And it's well documented that the Surfs Up album was part of Jack Rielly's (successful) campaign to get the band relevant again.

Of course I could well be wrong and Mike could have really been part of the counter culture for two years. Personally though I think SDT is exactly the same as "I'm pickin' up Bush Vibrations" Very calculated.

[runnersdialzero]

They were desperately unhip, and trying to be relevant. This is why you're getting the eco songs, the social commentary songs and the coke songs. Its well documented that this album was all about Jack Riely trying to get them relevant again

I don't think every lyric on that album is as contrived as you're making it out to be. I mean Al Jardine was screaming "TOOTHPASTE AND SOAP WILL MAKE OUR OCEANS A BUBBLE BATH!", but years later, he's still into the eco thing and still cares. That Al Jardine, what a guy. <3 <3 <3

But erm, yeah, I don't think that's the only instance of sincerity on the record, either. I'll admit some of it probably is contrived, but I don't think it was ever said that Jack Rieley specifically told them "You gotta write a song about toothpaste and soap making our oceans a bubble bath, you gotta write a song about being poor, you gotta write a song about a college protest" etc.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

"Oh well, I'm obviously a shallow person then  Smiley"

I sincerely apologize if I came across hurtfully, Mr. N.

Please believe me when I say that I do not consider you a "shallow person."

In fact, I am in accord with much that you have to say and don't always take the time to signal that.

I will think twice in the future before letting out a shallow remark of my own.

Back to topic: I can't agree in viewing SU as a mere marketing strategy.

I was teasing, don't worry.

And I've said much worse to you!

[SMiLE Brian]

A shallow appreciation of SU.

Oh well, I'm obviously a shallow person then  

I agree with you Steven, all that effort from the group to seem hip, while Brian barely shows up on the album and has the songs people remember.

What are you talking about? Songs like Feel Flows, Disney Girls and even Long Promised Road are well remembered, even sung by other artists and songs used on soundtracks. You really need think before you write, we readers would surely appreciate it.

And you need to learn to accept other's viewpoints that aren't your own. I am expressing my thoughts on the subject at hand.

[drbeachboy]

A shallow appreciation of SU.

Oh well, I'm obviously a shallow person then 

I agree with you Steven, all that effort from the group to seem hip, while Brian barely shows up on the album and has the songs people remember.

What are you talking about? Songs like Feel Flows, Disney Girls and even Long Promised Road are well remembered, even sung by other artists and songs used on soundtracks. You really need think before you write, we readers would surely appreciate it.

And you need to learn to accept other's viewpoints that aren't your own. I am expressing my thoughts on the subject at hand.

That was not a viewpoint. You used nothing to back your statement up. You wrote it like it was fact. That is your problem; you don't think before you write. if you stated why you felt that way, then maybe I would not come back at you the way I do. You can't blurt stuff out and expect people to understand. Back to English class for you!

[RangeRoverA1]

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It's the 2nd time when I see you posting this picture. Have no idea what this odd gesture means.

[SMiLE Brian]

I think the lyrics for this song are pandering from ML to get record sales and I wanted to show a picture of a more honest ML. (IMO so I don't get flamed again)

[Rocker]

Of course Jack Rieley was trying to get them hip again. That was his offer and what the boys were looking for. But I don't think he was dictating them what to write about. It probably was more of telling them they shouldn't think in formula like hits but write about what comes naturally and what concerns them. * Now, regarding SDT I don't know if Mike really felt that way but I don't have any reason for thinking he didn't. Maybe, since Rieley wasn't as fond of Mike, he felt that he had to come up with something relevant even if his mind was on other stuff like TM. Still, in some way Mike (and the group) must've been concerned with this topic and I think it was only natural that they recorded this. Same with the eco-songs. It's just that before Rieley no one told the Beach Boys that they had grown up and were living in a time when people weren't looking for a utopia in music but for someone to tell it like it is.
IMO



*BTW this is exactly the way Brian and the boys worked also in the surf-years. They did the songs as they came to them (mostly Brian of course) and weren't trying to follow a formula or cliche. They did what came naturally. That's why all those soundalikes never made it; they weren't "honest" (for lack of a better word). And that's also why the nostalgic route that Mike seems to prefer these days is as far away from the Beach Boys' music as can be, even when putting all superficial elements of the "Beach Boys Sound" in a song.

[drbeachboy]

Also, they were not the first band to invent or record Surf or Hot Rod music, either. Were they pandering at the very beginning too? Wow, maybe their whole career has been a fraud. See, I don't get this whole line of thinking in this thread. Why do they have to be first in every thing for their songs to be relevant? The whole point is nonsense. If that were the case, you'd only have a handful of performers, one from each sub-genre who would be relevant. Shoot, every band follows some other band, even the Beatles & Stones were influenced by and playing other peoples music.

[Mr. Wilson]

As a life long hardcore BB fan that grew up in southern California at the same time as the BB 1st started I never took SDT very seriously.BUT.Casual fans + non fans took Surfs Up lp seriously and it was a popular track.It was like the BB didn't exist  for a few years and suddenly became hip with this lp..It was a stoner lp + very popular to listen to. So was the Holland lp..And the live l,p.. SDT was"nt criticized like it is now.It was of the moment and excepted. Now myself with BB expectations I found it a little forced and I didn't like all the fuzz box on the guitar..I prefer overdrive to fuzz box anyday. All these years later the track is easy to take issue with. But in its day it was fairly well received . Most BB music has a timeless spiritual quality to it..SDT doesn't have it..Maybe that's why it gets picked on..IMHO

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Also, they were not the first band to invent or record Surf or Hot Rod music, either. Were they pandering at the very beginning too? Wow, maybe their whole career has been a fraud. See, I don't get this whole line of thinking in this thread. Why do they have to be first in every thing for their songs to be relevant? The whole point is nonsense. If that were the case, you'd only have a handful of performers, one from each sub-genre who would be relevant. Shoot, every band follows some other band, even the Beatles & Stones were influenced by and playing other peoples music.

Rather a strawman argument there, as that's obviously not what I'm saying. There's a big difference between jumping on a fad at the beginning of your career, and, during a bad patch, chucking a load of different styles at the wall and seeing what sticks. Not that, as I've been saying from the beginning,  there's anything wrong with that.

I'm also not saying the album is a complete marketing sham, but, it's lyrical messages are targeting a particular demographic that I don't think Mike has ever really been a part of.

I love the Surfs Up album. It works really well, except for (me persoanlly) that song.

DrBeachBoy, you know I love you an' all, but you do have a tendancy to put words in peoples mouths and to intentionally misunderstand peoples posts. Read back over my recent contributions to this thread again. At no point did I say there's anything with wrong with a band trying to jump start their career again by appealing to a market which has been lost to them. Above all the Beach Boys are businessmen, which is why they've had such a long career.