The C50 Post Mortem Thread

[HeyJude]

Look I don't think anyone is denying here that Mike Love handled the situation last fall poorly.

I deny it. To me the clusterfuck is on Brian and Al.

That's interesting - how come?

Because Cam Mott has been staunchly pro-Mike and anti-Al (and anti-Brian in anything relating to Mike) since I can remember. Go back and read the usenet groups (I believe) and other boards if they still exist going all the way back to at least 1999 or 2000, and it’s the same stuff, same arguments. You’ll read how Mike is without blame at every juncture in the Beach Boys story post-1998 (and usually prior as well), is just doing his thing minding his own business and abiding by every legal technicality, and Al Jardine is the evil mastermind who has consistently set out to f--- everything up.

This is probably Jude's way of thanking me for helping to bring balance to the fan community.

Please do go back and read all of it. While there read what passed for knowledge about Mike [mostly], it was some f-ed up stuff back then and the defense of it was pretty f-ed up too. Things are much better now even in the occasional dust up.

There were less “pro-Mike” folks back then there are now. Some balance and some reflection on Mike’s position in all of the touring band/naming ruckus was and would have been welcomed. Unfortunately, continually and completely flipping the debate and opining that Mike was completely in the right and Al Jardine was the villain of the story was not conducive to the balanced debate that would have been wonderful.

A number of fans, including myself, were suggesting back then, with little ironclad evidence to go on, that maybe, just maybe, while Mike was legally right in the various scenarios, that there may have been some legal but perhaps disagreeable (to some) tactics used to achieve his goals pertaining to the touring band. We eventually got some more details that supported this idea. Peter Ames Carlin’s biography alluded to several instances where Mike attempted to edge Al out of the band, as early as 1990. Jon Stebbins reported additional details concerning how Mike was edging Al out and using David Marks as a pawn. Again, nothing illegal. But these reports did not paint Mike in the best light, and some of Al’s own comments about how he was amazed that Mike “pulled it off” also support the idea that Mike used legal and corporate strategy to get what he wanted. Legally in the clear certainly (unless we’re talking about different, later issues such as his suit against Brian in the mid 2000’s that was arguably laughed out of court), but open to some of the criticisms that fans were making that you disagreed with.

I've always gotten it, you and others thought Al had earned some sort of special treatment in regards to the trademark. I never disagreed with that, BRI wanted Mike to have an exclusive license. Al attempted a "coup", threatened a lawsuit and BRI gave him special treatment and he pissed that away. Mike didn't even have enough control to keep BRI from taking away his exclusive license or offering Al a sweeter deal than Mike had gotten. There were ethical problems but they were Al's ethics which were the problem. That's not speculation or me opining, it is a matter of court record. Now maybe somebody closer than court records to the people and situation can get on and clarify further with more facts instead of speculation.

Mike could no more force Al from the band than Al could force Mike from the band, that is confirmed recently by Brian while he was retracting C50 "been fired" statements.

There is a lot of forgetting going on but I don't think it is by me. To me you choose to ignore stuff that does not indict Mike, so yin and yang I suppose.

I don't believe all of the ethical or moral questions or issues were addressed in the court paperwork, nor should they have been. That's why I mentioned that the debate expands outside of the legal realm and into a very subjective area. The court paperwork doesn't prove that anybody was morally wrong or right. That's the whole point.

[Pretty Funky]

Also, to touch on something brought up (again) in recent posts, I for one would be just as disappointed in Brian (or any member) if he had been the one to put the brakes on more reunion activities.

That's something I really don't understand. So if Brian or Al had felt, 'I'm not enjoying this and would rather do something else' then you would have felt disappointed in them? I'm not sure why anyone should have felt compelled to continue in that line-up if they didn't want to.

I think the basic idea is that if any one member had objected to continuing, while all others were on board, that would be disappointing.

Let us not forget thst they all agreed to extend the number of originally booked shows which allowed them to go to the UK, if I am not mistaken. And both Brian and Al where clear in their desire to extend while Mike said no.

The real question is why Mike said no. Those M/B shows could have easily been resceduled. Maybe Al and Mike were at each others throats, and Mike made the decision most of us might make, "I don't need this in my life, rather do my own thing". Point is, as much as I don't like Mike, he may have had other reasonable reasons for stopping and he is being classy by noy slinging mud. Just more wild speculation.

Really? Think about that. Venues, band travel, dates and of course thousands of tickets sold and those concert goers making plans also. I know a couple of South America gigs were cancelled but other reasons may have come into play there.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Also, to touch on something brought up (again) in recent posts, I for one would be just as disappointed in Brian (or any member) if he had been the one to put the brakes on more reunion activities.

That's something I really don't understand. So if Brian or Al had felt, 'I'm not enjoying this and would rather do something else' then you would have felt disappointed in them? I'm not sure why anyone should have felt compelled to continue in that line-up if they didn't want to.

I think the basic idea is that if any one member had objected to continuing, while all others were on board, that would be disappointing.

Let us not forget thst they all agreed to extend the number of originally booked shows which allowed them to go to the UK, if I am not mistaken. And both Brian and Al where clear in their desire to extend while Mike said no.

The real question is why Mike said no. Those M/B shows could have easily been rescheduled. Maybe Al and Mike were at each others throats, and Mike made the decision most of us might make, "I don't need this in my life, rather do my own thing". Point is, as much as I don't like Mike, he may have had other reasonable reasons for stopping and he is being classy by noy slinging mud. Just more wild speculation.

Really? Think about that. Venues, band travel, dates and of course thousands of tickets sold and those concert goers making plans also. I know a couple of South America gigs were cancelled but other reasons may have come into play there.

Happens all the time. Van Halen canceled the last part of their last tour, now resceduled. Bob Weir just got .......... and Further rescheduled dates. The casino circuit is not the same as rescheduling a sold out stadium show.

Probably rescheduled shows to extend the C50 but I don't know that for a fact.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

As a matter of fact, the Oct 2012 Chile concert and the Texas Nutty Jerry show booked by M/B both ended up getting canceled. Those were the ones that started the controversy during the C50 tour.

[Nicko1234]

Probably rescheduled shows to extend the C50 but I don't know that for a fact.

Really?

October was always the month that Mike and Bruce dates were scheduled to begin from what I recall.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Probably rescheduled shows to extend the C50 but I don't know that for a fact.

Really?

October was always the month that Mike and Bruce dates were scheduled to begin from what I recall.

Dude, you just love to quibble. If you bothered to process the words of my post you might have noted the word "probably" and phrase "I don't know  this for a fact"? Why don't you do some research? Do you know if, to extend the C50, Mike had to rechedule dates? Apparently not. The Oct concert in Chile was announced after the C50 was extended.
You continue to make yourself look like you are arguing for arguments sake. Why so thin skinned?

[Nicko1234]

Dude, you just love to quibble. If you bothered to process the words of my post you might have noted the word "probably" and phrase "I don't know  thst for a fact"? Why don't you do some research? Do you know if, to extend the C50, Mike had to rechedule dates? Apparently not. The Oct concert in Chile was announced after the C50 was extended.
You continue to make yourself look like you are arguing for arguments sake. Why so thin skinned?

I asked you a simple question. Nice attitude though. 

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Dude, you just love to quibble. If you bothered to process the words of my post you might have noted the word "probably" and phrase "I don't know  thst for a fact"? Why don't you do some research? Do you know if, to extend the C50, Mike had to rechedule dates? Apparently not. The Oct concert in Chile was announced after the C50 was extended.
You continue to make yourself look like you are arguing for arguments sake. Why so thin skinned?

I asked you a simple question. Nice attitude though.  

Really?     I don't think MI5, the CIA or the FBI could discern a specific question there, simple or otherwise.

[Nicko1234]

Really?   

Absolutely. Maybe you should stop believing people are attacking you in every post if they are just asking a simple question or referring to a wrestling announcer. 

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Really?   

Absolutely. Maybe you should stop believing people are attacking you in every post if they are just asking a simple question or referring to a wrestling announcer. 

You always refuse the obvious, which was you asked no question

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Alright...take it to PMs.

[Cam Mott]

I don't believe all of the ethical or moral questions or issues were addressed in the court paperwork, nor should they have been. That's why I mentioned that the debate expands outside of the legal realm and into a very subjective area. The court paperwork doesn't prove that anybody was morally wrong or right. That's the whole point.

So we will speculate something and ignore the court documented ethical/moral/factual problems? I guess we will still disagree.

[HeyJude]

I don't believe all of the ethical or moral questions or issues were addressed in the court paperwork, nor should they have been. That's why I mentioned that the debate expands outside of the legal realm and into a very subjective area. The court paperwork doesn't prove that anybody was morally wrong or right. That's the whole point.

So we will speculate something and ignore the court documented ethical/moral/factual problems? I guess we will still disagree.

None of the court documents were or should be ignored. The problem was and is that I don't feel the discussion should begin and end with your interpretation of those documents. The debate isn't about how the courts ruled; there's no disagreement there. But the discussion about the larger issue of the band and morals and ethics does not begin and end with court rulings and legalities.

[Cam Mott]

I don't believe all of the ethical or moral questions or issues were addressed in the court paperwork, nor should they have been. That's why I mentioned that the debate expands outside of the legal realm and into a very subjective area. The court paperwork doesn't prove that anybody was morally wrong or right. That's the whole point.

So we will speculate something and ignore the court documented ethical/moral/factual problems? I guess we will still disagree.

None of the court documents were or should be ignored. The problem was and is that I don't feel the discussion should begin and end with your interpretation of those documents. The debate isn't about how the courts ruled; there's no disagreement there. But the discussion about the larger issue of the band and morals and ethics does not begin and end with court rulings and legalities.

That's fine but speculative. I have never been about the legalism or verdict. I've always been talking about the factual vs. the speculative and the moral and ethical problems, of which there are many and damning, documented by the courts but you seem to not accept that and divert to some sort of extenuating speculation whilst attempting to dismiss me [I guess] as in denial. Anyway, back to quiet disagreement.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Deleted

[Micha]

Anyone here who would like to fight on-board with me? I can take any pro-Mike position needed for that.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

As prodicted, the C50 split is going to come up again and again this year. MIC articles, Brian solo album articles, DBA tour articles

http://m.rollingstone.com/v/News/MusicBeachBoysCap/?KSID=dcd9095d1e53162696315ea7041fd063&type_specific=

[JohnMill]

This is family. The family had a reunion. It was a gift to each other, and a gift to themselves. Families don't have to live in the same house their entire lives to love each other. The bottom line is Brian and Mike are cousins. It transcends anything musical. It is blood. They are kin. They love each other. That is the bottom line. Brian and Mike's wives understand that. I think we can too.

I hope you are right Peter.  Maybe someone can put up an instagram of the two at a Lakers game next season.  I'm sure it would make many people here (myself included) feel much better.  I really hope the events of last fall didn't do any permanent damage to the relationship between the cuzzins. 

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Yet another article socking it to Mike. No, my name is not Dave Swanson

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/beach-boys-box-set/


BEACH BOYS ‘MADE IN CALIFORNIA’ BOX SET ANNOUNCED

by Dave Swanson June 11, 2013 4:53 PM

Last year, as the Beach Boys kicked off their 50th anniversary celebration, a multi-disc box set was supposed to be part of that. It was put on hold, until now.‘Made In California’ was originally announced to be released in early 2012 as the kick off of the 50th celebration.

A variety of issues held up its release, but now, Capitol Records has announced a street date of Aug. 27.The set will contain over seven and a half hours of music, including 60 previously unreleased tracks, along with the hits and album tracks of the band’s 50 year run. Included will be alternate takes, live recordings, and demos, as well as some radio and television performances.

There were reports early on that Mike Love, the notorious stick in the mud, had demanded certain unreleased tracks be taken off. Apparently, it has remained intact. In a statement on the box, Love said, “This box set captures the evolution of a dream which started with a family singing Everly Brothers songs around a piano, to creating the harmonies that fans would carry in their hearts for a lifetime.”‘Made In California’ will be packaged to look like a high school yearbook, and will include a reproduction of an essay, titled ‘My Philosophy,’ written by Brian Wilson in 1959, while still a student. The package also includes photos, memorabilia, classic Beach Boys artwork and more from the bands archives, as well as notations from Love, Wilson, Al Jardine, Bruce Johnston and David Marks.

Earlier this year, it was announced and Love and Johnston were set to carry on with the Beach Boys name, leaving Jardine, Marks and Wilson in the dust. Since then, Wilson has re-signed with Capitol Records and is working on a new album, with some help from Marks and Jardine. He is also hitting the road with the duo.

[KittyKat]

If people don't like Mike, why do they want him to sing and play with Brian and Al?  I get the anger over Mike having the Beach Boys' name (though Brian is responsible for that, too), but can anyone force Mike to want to play and sing with Brian and Al? More to the point, if you hate Mike's personality, musical taste, and aren't too fond of his singing voice, as most anti-Mike people are, why do you want to see another reunion with him?

Better to support Brian and his solo efforts. Brian's been doing it for over ten years now, he has Al and Dave (for now, see how that works out in the end). Of course Brian isn't touring much. If there's some reason Brian doesn't book many dates, that would have difficult in terms of a continued reunion, too.

[Doo Dah]

Yet another article socking it to Mike. No, my name is not Dave Swanson

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/beach-boys-box-set/


BEACH BOYS ‘MADE IN CALIFORNIA’ BOX SET ANNOUNCED

by Dave Swanson June 11, 2013 4:53 PM

Last year, as the Beach Boys kicked off their 50th anniversary celebration, a multi-disc box set was supposed to be part of that. It was put on hold, until now.‘Made In California’ was originally announced to be released in early 2012 as the kick off of the 50th celebration.

A variety of issues held up its release, but now, Capitol Records has announced a street date of Aug. 27.The set will contain over seven and a half hours of music, including 60 previously unreleased tracks, along with the hits and album tracks of the band’s 50 year run. Included will be alternate takes, live recordings, and demos, as well as some radio and television performances.

There were reports early on that Mike Love, the notorious stick in the mud, had demanded certain unreleased tracks be taken off. Apparently, it has remained intact. In a statement on the box, Love said, “This box set captures the evolution of a dream which started with a family singing Everly Brothers songs around a piano, to creating the harmonies that fans would carry in their hearts for a lifetime.”‘Made In California’ will be packaged to look like a high school yearbook, and will include a reproduction of an essay, titled ‘My Philosophy,’ written by Brian Wilson in 1959, while still a student. The package also includes photos, memorabilia, classic Beach Boys artwork and more from the bands archives, as well as notations from Love, Wilson, Al Jardine, Bruce Johnston and David Marks.

Earlier this year, it was announced and Love and Johnston were set to carry on with the Beach Boys name, leaving Jardine, Marks and Wilson in the dust. Since then, Wilson has re-signed with Capitol Records and is working on a new album, with some help from Marks and Jardine. He is also hitting the road with the duo.

Hey - I know that dude! Part of the Cleveland scene. I remember he gave me a great Smile comp on cassette sometime long ago in the hazy 1990's. We were both on a GBV album.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Yet another article socking it to Mike. No, my name is not Dave Swanson

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/beach-boys-box-set/


BEACH BOYS ‘MADE IN CALIFORNIA’ BOX SET ANNOUNCED

by Dave Swanson June 11, 2013 4:53 PM

Last year, as the Beach Boys kicked off their 50th anniversary celebration, a multi-disc box set was supposed to be part of that. It was put on hold, until now.‘Made In California’ was originally announced to be released in early 2012 as the kick off of the 50th celebration.

A variety of issues held up its release, but now, Capitol Records has announced a street date of Aug. 27.The set will contain over seven and a half hours of music, including 60 previously unreleased tracks, along with the hits and album tracks of the band’s 50 year run. Included will be alternate takes, live recordings, and demos, as well as some radio and television performances.

There were reports early on that Mike Love, the notorious stick in the mud, had demanded certain unreleased tracks be taken off. Apparently, it has remained intact. In a statement on the box, Love said, “This box set captures the evolution of a dream which started with a family singing Everly Brothers songs around a piano, to creating the harmonies that fans would carry in their hearts for a lifetime.”‘Made In California’ will be packaged to look like a high school yearbook, and will include a reproduction of an essay, titled ‘My Philosophy,’ written by Brian Wilson in 1959, while still a student. The package also includes photos, memorabilia, classic Beach Boys artwork and more from the bands archives, as well as notations from Love, Wilson, Al Jardine, Bruce Johnston and David Marks.

Earlier this year, it was announced and Love and Johnston were set to carry on with the Beach Boys name, leaving Jardine, Marks and Wilson in the dust. Since then, Wilson has re-signed with Capitol Records and is working on a new album, with some help from Marks and Jardine. He is also hitting the road with the duo.

Hey - I know that dude! Part of the Cleveland scene. I remember he gave me a great Smile comp on cassette sometime long ago in the hazy 1990's. We were both on a GBV album.

Pretty cool! He obviously is not a Mike fan.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

More bad press from the C50th aftermath.

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2013/06/beach-boys-to-release-six-cd-box-set-called-made-i.html

From Paste Magazine

Beach Boys to Release Six-CD Box Set Titled Made in California
Published at 10:45 AM on June 12, 2013
By Benjamin Hurston

Though internal feuds have plagued The Beach Boys in recent years, Capitol Records is still unearthing cuts from one of America’s most recognized bands.

The Beach Boys will release a special, six-CD box set this summer that features seven and a half hours of material from the band’s 50+ year career. The set, called Made in California, features 60 original songs by the band, and it will include various demos, alternative recordings and live performances.

The box set will be packaged as a high school yearbook, which will contain artwork, messages and memorabilia from the band throughout its career, including a 1959 personal essay written by Brian Wilson when he was a student called “My Philosophy.”

“This box set captures the evolution of a dream which started with a family singing Everly Brothers songs around a piano, to creating the harmonies that fans would carry in their hearts for a lifetime,” said Mike Love, one of the founding members of the band, in a statement.

The announcement comes after an apparent rift between Love and other original members of the band. Wilson is currently recording a solo album with help from previous band members Al Jardine and David Marks, while Love continues to carry on the band’s name with a new lineup.

Made in California is out on Aug. 27 on Capitol Records.