Brian, Al, and David Meet and Greet Summer 2013

[Matt H]

Same thing I was thinking. How do you know that it's Jeff?

All of those signatures could have been done by Brian. If Brian slowed down and really tried to sign his name it would look a lot different than the fast, quick Brian signatures. Different every time.

I get that Brian may not be signing all of these things, but why is the default that Jeff is signing them?  Couldn't it be anyone?

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Can somebody explain to me how we know absolutely for sure that Jeff is signing as Brian?

Somebody on the internet said it so it has to be true.

[ontor pertawst]

This is why you should always demand a skin core sample from Brian and bring your own melon baller to extract it in a quick improvised biopsy. You need the DNA. Failing that I guess some cotton swabs on the inside of his mouth for that gunk would do for authentication purposes.

Needless to say, never trust Jeffrey to do it for you and on no account hand him the cotton swabs or q-tips you're using.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Here are my Wilson autographs, all signed right in front of me. They don't look much different from the "forgeries".

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Here are a bunch of versions of Jeff's take on Brian's signature

Oh! Such blatant forgeries! Its as clear as day!

[mikeddonn]

They do actually look a lot different to the forgeries.  For one thing, how many times did Brian dot the i's on your personally obtained ones?  Then look at the forgeries.  Now sometimes Brian might dot the i's but nowadays it's less likely.  Another thing I posted earlier is that Brian comes back along the bottom of the 'B' to the 'r'.  He doesn't go up through the loop. Again, compare your's with the forgeries.

[EgoHanger1966]

Can somebody explain to me how we know absolutely for sure that Jeff is signing as Brian?

Somebody on the internet said it so it has to be true.

Not necessarily proof, but there's been at least one report of a fan who's given something to Jeff to take into the tour bus to sign for Brian - and when he comes out, the signature isn't Brian's.

[JohnMill]

Someone needs to put their money where their mouth is and send one of the alleged forgeries into a third party verification service and see if it comes back fraudulent.  Basically a lot of words being thrown around without any real smoking gun.

[KittyKat]

The forgeries do mostly look like forgeries. Brian doesn't close his capital B's and the fake ones are mostly closed B's. I doubt he's the only artist to have people sign for him or use mechanical auto-signatures. The only way to guarantee authenticity is if he signs it in front of you. I'm not even sure what the point of getting an autograph is other than if they sign it in front of you. I was under the impression that autographs are an excuse to have a social exchange with a famous person and a memento that such exchange took place. Most people's signatures aren't that financially valuable.

[acedecade75]

Here is a link to a picture of the signatures they handed out to us at the Atlantic City meet and greet.  My main point is that they sold us a package that promised an autograph from Brian Wilson.  These were not just handed out for free.  It is fraud to advertise and sell and authentic autograph and then knowingly deliver a fake signature.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/acedecade75/bw.jpg

[mikeddonn]

Yip disappointing that they did that.  Hopefully you'll get new authentic ones sent out to you soon.

[KittyKat]

Here is a link to a picture of the signatures they handed out to us at the Atlantic City meet and greet.  My main point is that they sold us a package that promised an autograph from Brian Wilson.  These were not just handed out for free.  It is fraud to advertise and sell and authentic autograph and then knowingly deliver a fake signature.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/acedecade75/bw.jpg

I agree. I would be under the impression that there was an actual signing session for the money you paid. Brian has signed things for free at record stores, for example, and I'm sure it doesn't take that long to do it.  If you're being handed something pre-signed, it should have been indicated in the marketing blurb for the event, then at least you might consider the fact it could be auto-signed or signed by a band member.  There's a certain amount of contempt involved in getting someone like Jeff to forge signatures. I'm sure he has other things to do with his time, too.

[acedecade75]

 Also, at the Atlantic City show, they took full advantage of selling these meet and greet packages for a high profit.  There must have been at least 150 to 200 people at this meet and greet.  All these people purchased the meet and greet package under false, or at best misleading advetising, and pretty much everybody left upset and dissapointed.   There were obviously way too many people at this meet and greet.  They knowingly and willingly oversold it for the sake of making a few extra dollars.   This is not the way to treat fans!

[ontor pertawst]

" pretty much everybody left upset and dissapointed."

Were you polling, Mr. Luntz?

[JohnMill]

The forgeries do mostly look like forgeries. Brian doesn't close his capital B's and the fake ones are mostly closed B's. I doubt he's the only artist to have people sign for him or use mechanical auto-signatures. The only way to guarantee authenticity is if he signs it in front of you. I'm not even sure what the point of getting an autograph is other than if they sign it in front of you. I was under the impression that autographs are an excuse to have a social exchange with a famous person and a memento that such exchange took place. Most people's signatures aren't that financially valuable.

Depends on how you choose to look at it.  In the world of autograph collecting the value of an individual's signature is only determined by what a merchant is willing to sell it for and what a buyer is willing to pay.  Last summer during the C50 there were scores of autographed Beach Boys tour books for auction on eBay some with Buy It Now options on them.  From memory the general asking price for a Beach Boys C50 tour book signed by all five members was $500 (US).

Now if you were someone who purchased one of these tour books under the impression that they were signed by all five band members, it would be disappointing to say the least to find that the "Brian Wilson" signature was forged.  In addition in some collecting circles potential buyers won't touch a "group sign" whether it be by a band, cast or team if one of the signatures in the grouping has been proven to be a forgery.  The reason being is that the forged signature "contaminates" the piece and thereby lowers its value or worth.  So in theory someone purchasing a "group sign" piece with a forged Brian Wilson signature might not only have wasted their money on a forgery but also be in possession of a piece which is essentially damaged goods in the eyes of many collectors and therefore unsellable.  

[Pretty Funky]

Here is a link to a picture of the signatures they handed out to us at the Atlantic City meet and greet.  My main point is that they sold us a package that promised an autograph from Brian Wilson.  These were not just handed out for free.  It is fraud to advertise and sell and authentic autograph and then knowingly deliver a fake signature.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/acedecade75/bw.jpg

Ironic really as its on a fake picture as well. A photo shopped C50 promo.

[MBE]

All this is why I don't collect autographs. Too easy to fake and I don't see the point unless you get it in person. I mean I suppose I would love a signed POB for instance, but I can't pay the money for it not knowing if it is real.

[JohnMill]

All this is why I don't collect autographs. Too easy to fake and I don't see the point unless you get it in person. I mean I suppose I would love a signed POB for instance, but I can't pay the money for it not knowing if it is real.

Again do some research on third party verification.  In reality there is really only a small handful of authenticators that are widely respected in the trade due to the fact that they have a extremely high success rate in being able to spot forgeries.  Obviously nothing is 100% fail proof but if you ever have any intention of your collection being anything other than a huddled scrapbook you would probably want the authentication anyhow.  

My other piece of advice to you or anyone else who might want to purchase a signed photograph or piece of memorabilia online is do some research first.  Signatures by highly sought after entertainers, athletes or public figures usually go for several hundred dollars.  Therefore if you see someone selling an autograph by someone of this ilk for around $100 it is likely a fake.  As a rule $200-$250 is usually the rock bottom price that sellers will ask for in these cases and it only goes upwards from there.  Also be aware that there are some autographs that are so rare that the likelihood of finding them on the internet or anywhere else is a near impossibility.  For example there are only relatively a small number of items in circulation that have been signed by all four Beatles.  From the last time I checked none of these items include a guitar and there are truly only a small number of record albums containing all four signatures in circulation.  The same goes for items that have been signed by a party that is now deceased.  I can't tell you how many autographed Jimi Hendrix guitars I've seen in my time and most of them have been forgeries.  None of them have third party verification attached to the guitar and despite that fact most of them still command prices upwards of thousands of dollars.

Which brings me back to the third party verification thing.  Given the nature of the internet and the number of scam artists that exist it's pretty much a must in almost all cases.

[Heywood]

Has anyone got a confirmed, signed in person, signature where Brian dotted the i in Brian?I

[Mikie]

Yes.  More than one.  And a couple from the 70's with circles above the "i".

[acedecade75]

Just as a little update, the Atlantic City replacement autographed pictures arrived in the mail today.  They are actual pictures on photostock.  And I believe that both of them ARE truely signed by Brian.  The signatures on these two pictures are very much in line with what I've gotten from him personaly over the years.  So, at least the people in charge did attempt to make things right.

[SloopJohnnyB]

That's good to hear. Hopefully it will take the edge off the disappointent you all had in N.J. The same thing happed a few years back in Pittsburgh with The Monkees. Someone was sick and Davy finally came out to take a picture with fans. (no Peter or Micky) I didn't bring camera but ended up with an autograph instead on a item that I brought. I thought security was going to assault me but I was able to get away.  We were to get a meet and greet, photo and I think a autograph. Many people were upset. Same kind of thing. Davy was really cool, though. He had a home somewhere east in the state of Pennsylvania. I can't believe he's gone.

It's turning out to be a great tour for Brian, Al and David. I'm looking forward hearing about possible surprises at the Greek Theatre. It should be interesting.

Just saw this. Check out the Greek Theatre website. Looks like Jeff Beck is sharing the bill. Nice to see Al and David there in the mix. Wow! :

http://www.greektheatrela.com/events/event_details.asp?id=2543

When Brian's new album is released I'm sure he'll take Al and Dave out on an extended tour in support of that album.

[mikeddonn]

That's good that you got it sorted out, and that the replacements were sent out quickly.

[southbay]

Which one is your pic Ego?  The TTWII CD booklet or the C50 programs?  By the way, sorry for using your pic---it was saved on my computer since last year when the whole autograph issues were coming up.  Your picture was crucial to compare signatures.

The booklet. I'm pissed. It was always in the back of my mind, but......I went to two shows last year, supported this band because I believe in them...bought TEN FUCKING CD's because Mike Love wanted his precious album to go #1, (the deal was buy ten, get one auto'd)....and this is how they repay their fans? Brian's too mentally ill to sign something? No, just lazy. No excuse. Not good enough. I know Jeff (or whoever) is just doing as he's told, but morally it's messed up. It's wrong. It should stop. I'm tired of all these excuses. I know the man isn't in the best of health - physical or mental - but this isn't fair. Do it to someone who doesn't give a sh*t. I have that booklet framed with a copy of Pet Sounds, hanging proudly on my wall. What a fucking joke, BRI. I hope Melinda or someone reads this (unlikely) and feels very, very badly about themselves and the things they do behind the scenes.

 Egohanger, you're correct.  There is no excuse.   If Brian doesn't want to do it he doesn't have to.  But BRI should not be getting anyone else to do it for him and passing it off as the real deal.  Incidentally, did you buy the CD booklet from the store or at a concert.  I was going to buy one of the booklets as well from the online store but went for the programme instead.

Bought it at a show.

Which one is your pic Ego?  The TTWII CD booklet or the C50 programs?  By the way, sorry for using your pic---it was saved on my computer since last year when the whole autograph issues were coming up.  Your picture was crucial to compare signatures.

The booklet. I'm pissed. It was always in the back of my mind, but......I went to two shows last year, supported this band because I believe in them...bought TEN FUCKING CD's because Mike Love wanted his precious album to go #1, (the deal was buy ten, get one auto'd)....and this is how they repay their fans? Brian's too mentally ill to sign something? No, just lazy. No excuse. Not good enough. I know Jeff (or whoever) is just doing as he's told, but morally it's messed up. It's wrong. It should stop. I'm tired of all these excuses. I know the man isn't in the best of health - physical or mental - but this isn't fair. Do it to someone who doesn't give a sh*t. I have that booklet framed with a copy of Pet Sounds, hanging proudly on my wall. What a fucking joke, BRI. I hope Melinda or someone reads this (unlikely) and feels very, very badly about themselves and the things they do behind the scenes.

I hear ya, man.  I'm real sorry.  I'd be pissed too. A bunch of people bought signed copies of Keith Richards' autobiography from his official website a few years ago only to find out later that they were all signed by autopen.  

The very first time I saw this signature was at one of the Gershwin shows.  They were selling the CD in the lobby and I saw these signatures and I knew right away that they were off.  Way too clean and most of all: way too consistent.  As you can see even in the pic of the Smile box sets: the signatures all had variations yet they all shared the same characteristics.  The fake Brian sigs are all exactly the same and for me, the biggest black eye is that both the "i's" in Brian and Wilson were dotted--in each and every signature.  That doesn't match up too well with Brian's real signature.  I remember a fan during the C50 Irvine show had asked a crew member to get Brian to sign his Pet Sounds CD for him.  He got it back and he showed it to me.  It had the fake signature on it.  I didn't have the heart to tell him.  

I'm not sure why Brian stopped signing--but it seemed to be very sporadic.  Some of the C50 tour books were actually signed by him and also some of the 8x10 pictures they had also were signed by him...so it was very inconsistent when he would/wouldn't sign.  It may have to do with what you said: laziness but really, they shouldn't  have Brian sign at all if he doesn't want to.  To have a fake signature on there is unacceptable.

I know this has bummed you out but you still have a good memento from a great tour and you do have authentic signatures from the rest of the band on that booklet.

Yeah, I just needed some time to cool down. I always knew in my heart of hearts that there was a very good chance it wasn't real. And, for what it's worth, I wanted it as a memento of the "summer of The Beach Boys" - it really was a momentous thing - and it still works as that. I'm not naive, I know this goes on, and there's not much you can do to stop it, but....Jeff, if you're reading this - work on those squiggles!!!!!!

I realize my original comments may seem harsh, and I'm not out to offend anyone - but you try plonking down a Benjamin for a Jeff Foskett autograph.
Maybe if it was on a copy of "Through My Window"...I'd pay a quarter of that.

Don't despair completely. I have gotten Brian to autograph between 5-10 items personally (right in front of me) between 1988 and last year.  While reading this thread I pulled some of them out (others are in my office at work) to inspect them.  I can tell you no 2 are alike and some of them differ wildly.   the b in Brian differs, the detail in "rian" (sometimes it's there, sometimes it is just a line), same comments go for the W and the ilson. Other factors come into play as other posters mention above--how many cds, etc. is Brian signing, how tired is he?  All of these factor into his signature. In my own profession I have days where I may sign a hundred letters at a time, my signature on those letters will vary as I look at them because I am signing very quickly.  Point is, we can speculate but unless we were actually in the room with them we don't know that it wasn't Brian signing just due the variance in the signature.

[southbay]

The forgeries do mostly look like forgeries. Brian doesn't close his capital B's and the fake ones are mostly closed B's. I doubt he's the only artist to have people sign for him or use mechanical auto-signatures. The only way to guarantee authenticity is if he signs it in front of you. I'm not even sure what the point of getting an autograph is other than if they sign it in front of you. I was under the impression that autographs are an excuse to have a social exchange with a famous person and a memento that such exchange took place. Most people's signatures aren't that financially valuable.

Depends.  I have two Brian signed albums right in front of me, each signed by Brian himself less than five feet from me.  The BW 88 Album the Capital B is not closed.  The Sunflower has a closed capital B.