Durrie Parks Smile acetates up for sale for $10,000

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

i just mean, it's $ 10,000 guys, who'd spend that on something they know so little about?

[EgoHanger1966]

i just mean, it's $ 10,000 guys, who'd spend that on something they know so little about?

I know what you meant.
Again...don't be so naive.

[zachrwolfe]

‍

[EgoHanger1966]

i just mean, it's $ 10,000 guys, who'd spend that on something they know so little about?

I know what you meant.
Again...don't be so naive.

Is that a hint that you bought them?

I may be crazy, but i'm not that crazy!

[Tricycle Rider]

SOMEBODY here is! 

[EgoHanger1966]

SOMEBODY here is! 

C'mon now, this is exactly what I was saying in my previous posts. If you think the only people interested in these are on this board, you're livin' in a netherland.

[Tricycle Rider]

Color me a Netherlandian then! (just having a bit of fun, mate!)

Seriously, I wonder who DID buy them?

[KittyKat]

If the site lets a person add the acetates twice (winding up with quantity: 2) to the shopping cart, there's no saying if they really sold yet or not. It doesn't seem like the most well-run website. So it's hard to say if they sold, until they either take the item down or put a larger notice that they've sold. I suppose they could be waiting for the check to clear or the credit card company full $10,000 credit to hit their account.

Unless there are multiple copies of these rare acetates.

[Jim V.]

Worth noting that while this is infinitely interesting and is worth more than any fan guess, much like the Cantina version, it's probably just a work in progress structure that Brian felt worked one day of his life and should not be angrily argued for as the definitive end-all-be-all of "Heroes And Villains" structures.

I was thinking about this same basic idea earlier too. We all knew "I'm In Great Shape" was considered as a part of "Heroes And Villains" before this information, but it is interesting to now have a bit more of a clue as to where it might have been placed. But yeah, "Heroes..." is one of the songs that we know how Brian woulda done it, cuz he did indeed finish it, for better or worse by mid '67 (better in my opinion).

I think that one thing that we will probably never have much of a clue about though is what a standalone  "I'm In Great Shape"  track woulda been. I'm assuming it wouldn't have just been that one section. Maybe "I Wanna Be Around" and "Friday Night" woulda been involved, maybe not.

But anyways, I know somebody mentioned this earlier, but I think it would be interesting if somebody worked up a version of "Heroes..." with "Great Shape" edited in. Now obviously we don't have that exact take that Andy talked about, but it would still be interesting. And I would totally do it, but I have had no luck with editing the SMiLE things together before.

[bossaroo]

I slapped this together. It doesn't do that much for me but it's not bad. Ultimately I prefer I'm In Great Shape as a separate entity along with I Wanna Be Around and Friday Night. I like to think that's where IIGS was headed, and obviously that's how it ended up on BWPS.

https://soundcloud.com/bossaroo/heroes-villains-great-shape

[Micha]

But anyways, I know somebody mentioned this earlier, but I think it would be interesting if somebody worked up a version of "Heroes..." with "Great Shape" edited in.

I did, didn't like it, junked it.

SOMEBODY here is! 

C'mon now, this is exactly what I was saying in my previous posts. If you think the only people interested in these are on this board, you're livin' in a netherland.

Let's hear what the Don has to say about this!

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Worth noting that while this is infinitely interesting and is worth more than any fan guess, much like the Cantina version, it's probably just a work in progress structure that Brian felt worked one day of his life and should not be angrily argued for as the definitive end-all-be-all of "Heroes And Villains" structures.

I was thinking about this same basic idea earlier too. We all knew "I'm In Great Shape" was considered as a part of "Heroes And Villains" before this information, but it is interesting to now have a bit more of a clue as to wear it might have been placed. But yeah, "Heroes..." is one of the songs that we know how Brian woulda done it, cuz he did indeed finish it, for better or worse by mid '67 (better in my opinion).

I think that one thing that we will probably never have much of a clue about though is what a standalone  "I'm In Great Shape"  track woulda been. I'm assuming it wouldn't have just been that one section. Maybe "I Wanna Be Around" and "Friday Night" woulda been involved, maybe not.

But anyways, I know somebody mentioned this earlier, but I think it would be interesting if somebody worked up a version of "Heroes..." with "Great Shape" edited in. Now obviously we don't have that exact take that Andy talked about, but it would still be interesting. And I would totally do it, but I have had no luck with editing the SMiLE things together before.

Well yes, the '67 Smiley version is the finished version. I'm just interested in hearing Heroes stuff from the missing period when IIGS was part of the song

[The Heartical Don]

But anyways, I know somebody mentioned this earlier, but I think it would be interesting if somebody worked up a version of "Heroes..." with "Great Shape" edited in.

I did, didn't like it, junked it.

SOMEBODY here is! 

C'mon now, this is exactly what I was saying in my previous posts. If you think the only people interested in these are on this board, you're livin' in a netherland.

Let's hear what the Don has to say about this!

  I confess. I bought them. No great shakes, at least not on my old Dansette record player. The fact that the crystal needle is very worn, its pressure is circa 8 gm, and that the 3" speaker inbuilt in the lid is not really hifi either, may have contributed to a less than ecstatic listening experience. Especially the H&V/IIGS chimera was gruesome, and even after 100 listens I couldn't see what all the fuss is about.

So I donated the lot to a good cause: IIRC it's in North-Korea.

Hope this info helps.

THD.

[buddhahat]

Worth noting that while this is infinitely interesting and is worth more than any fan guess, much like the Cantina version, it's probably just a work in progress structure that Brian felt worked one day of his life and should not be angrily argued for as the definitive end-all-be-all of "Heroes And Villains" structures.

Yes, it's clear that Heroes was in a constant sate of flux throughout 66/67, but that's excatly why this is such a cool find. Arguing anything about IIGS's placement within H&V was pretty futile when you were basing your argument on the Humble Harv demo, but now (potentially) we have evidence that Brian at least planned for it to precede "My Children Were Raised" at one point, just as Cantina would in the early 67 edit.

Listening to those two sections together on Bossaroo's mix (of course Andy has described a different version of IIGS than we've heard) there's a real sense of narrative - you get a much stronger sense of the male narrator running throughout the song. The intro to the song where he's been in this town so long etc, then the two sections we're discussing in this thread: he's describing waking up, having breakfast, appreciating the land, and going on to describe his kids growing up. If, like me, you believe Barnyard then to be the fade to this version, you then potentially have the same character describing his interactions with the barnyard, so it's much more a linear story told by one guy, rather than the more abstract Cantina edit that jumps to a scene about a girl in a cantina then an arrest and ends with a wordless section, or the even more abstract 45 edit that detours into the spooky bicycle rider theme.

Of course we don't know how Brian would've resolved other parts of the song at the time he apparently edited IIGS and My children together. Personally I'm with Bicycle Rider that if you swap cantina for IIGS and false barnyard fade for Barnyard you have it! Certainly the easiest and most logical solution based on what we have, even if it is not proven. I'd love to hear an edit that followed that sequence if anyone has the skills ....

[zaval80]

Obviously Brian has tried every way to edit H&V, what with Bicycle Rider into verse and verse into Bicycle Rider edits we know from bootlegs, and all the others.

There is one thing I can't figure out, though. At the end of Track 10, CD1, SOT UM 17 we have the "Hold On" section - and there clearly is a skip at the very end of that section. I never paid much attention to it, thinking it was a digital skip on my copy - and, sure enough, on TSS box in the "Early Outtake Section" track (Track 24, CD4, TSS), "Hold On" does not have that skip.

But then I've got another copy of SOT UM 17, and then yet another one - and they all have the same skip. I decided to have a closer look and magnified the offending spot in the Soundforge - and it did not look like a digital skip to me, but rather as a (bad) edit.

Anybody noticed this, any thoughts? SOT UM discs sound very good on the overall, no other skips like that on them.

[Mr. Cohen]

I had a theory awhile ago that people liked. Basically, I believe "In the Cantina" replaced "I'm In Great Shape" and "False Barnyard" (or whatever the heck it's called) really did replace "Barnyard". It makes sense structurally. And then Brian spun off the farming bits onto their song, "Barnyard Suite", which was never finished.

[Cam Mott]

If I understand andy correctly, IIGS probably does not have the distortion at the end, I take it as a butt cut edit before the distortion into butt cut edits of the next two sections. Yes? No? Anybody tried that as an approximation? Could a couple of or all versions of the IIGS instru track [sans Harv demo] be layered to simulate a version with fuller instrumentation? You know by someone not me, someone with the appropriate skills. Would that work?

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I had a theory awhile ago that people liked. Basically, I believe "In the Cantina" replaced "I'm In Great Shape" and "False Barnyard" (or whatever the heck it's called) really did replace "Barnyard". It makes sense structurally. And then Brian spun off the farming bits onto their song, "Barnyard Suite", which was never finished.

‘Barnyard’ seems so sluggish and slow, both in it’s “finished” recorded state and (especially) in the Humble Harv tape. While I don’t argue it could potentially be meant for the fade, it certainly seems like an odd choice. Doesn't have that "riding off into the sunset" feeling that...uh...."false barnyard" has.

And it has lyrics of it's own (though so does "good night m'baby sleep tight m'baby"). Were the lyrics intentionally discarded when it became a mere fade? And if so, what was it conceived as? Another interlude?

If these words were to appear at the end, are they saying that the entire wild west story was merely the fantasy of a simple farmer, who fell down in the pig pen and bumped his head and dreamed the song during 2 and a half minutes of unconciousness or something? Will he leave his hat on next time to cushion the blow?

[buddhahat]

If I understand andy correctly, IIGS probably does not have the distortion at the end, I take it as a butt cut edit before the distortion into butt cut edits of the next two sections. Yes? No? Anybody tried that as an approximation? Could a couple of or all versions of the IIGS instru track [sans Harv demo] be layered to simulate a version with fuller instrumentation? You know by someone not me, someone with the appropriate skills. Would that work?

I've wondered about the distortion too. Why record it with distortion if Brian was not intending to edit out of the explosion effect? But then it's unlikely he'd have IIGS end in the distortion, then have the dum dum whistle distortion section replicate the effect shortly afterwards within the song. It's a shame Andy can't remember whether the explosion effect was present at the end of the IIGS he heard. If there's no tape explosion in the version he heard, maybe Brian had decided to feature the effect later in the song at that point (i.e. in the dum dum whistle distortion section).

Nothing sounds as good coming out of that explosion effect as Barnyard imo. Maybe when he was recording it at the end of IIGS he planned to follow it immediately with the Barnyard fade as per Mark Linnett's edit on TSS. Then a while later he decided to place some sections in between IIGS and Barnard (e.g. My Children were raised, dum dum whistle distortion). Pure, groundless speculation but there you go!

I would love to hear this edit of IIGS + My chldren more than anything right now, but I fear the acetates may have been snapped up by a collector with no will to share the recordings. Let's hope that's not the case.

[buddhahat]

I had a theory awhile ago that people liked. Basically, I believe "In the Cantina" replaced "I'm In Great Shape" and "False Barnyard" (or whatever the heck it's called) really did replace "Barnyard". It makes sense structurally. And then Brian spun off the farming bits onto their song, "Barnyard Suite", which was never finished.

‘Barnyard’ seems so sluggish and slow, both in it’s “finished” recorded state and (especially) in the Humble Harv tape. While I don’t argue it could potentially be meant for the fade, it certainly seems like an odd choice. Doesn't have that "riding off into the sunset" feeling that...uh...."false barnyard" has.

And it has lyrics of it's own (though so does "good night m'baby sleep tight m'baby"). Were the lyrics intentionally discarded when it became a mere fade? And if so, what was it conceived as? Another interlude?

If these words were to appear at the end, are they saying that the entire wild west story was merely the fantasy of a simple farmer, who fell down in the pig pen and bumped his head and dreamed the song during 2 and a half minutes of unconciousness or something? Will he leave his hat on next time to cushion the blow?

Barnyard would work as a great fade with the crazy lyrics, for me. H&V was a comedy remember so it fulfills that description much better than the later incarnations that don't feature Barnard. The only thing that is comedic in the cantina edit is the "You're Under Arrest" shout. Both IIGS and Barnyard are lyrically humorous.

[rab2591]

If I understand andy correctly, IIGS probably does not have the distortion at the end, I take it as a butt cut edit before the distortion into butt cut edits of the next two sections. Yes? No? Anybody tried that as an approximation? Could a couple of or all versions of the IIGS instru track [sans Harv demo] be layered to simulate a version with fuller instrumentation? You know by someone not me, someone with the appropriate skills. Would that work?

This was my interpretation of his description of the transition from IIGS to the 'boys and girls' section (though I added the vocals to the harpsichord section): https://soundcloud.com/robert-borszich/im-in-decent-shape/s-334m0

It's seems to work really well - though it's probably not even close to what Andy was talking about.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I had a theory awhile ago that people liked. Basically, I believe "In the Cantina" replaced "I'm In Great Shape" and "False Barnyard" (or whatever the heck it's called) really did replace "Barnyard". It makes sense structurally. And then Brian spun off the farming bits onto their song, "Barnyard Suite", which was never finished.

‘Barnyard’ seems so sluggish and slow, both in it’s “finished” recorded state and (especially) in the Humble Harv tape. While I don’t argue it could potentially be meant for the fade, it certainly seems like an odd choice. Doesn't have that "riding off into the sunset" feeling that...uh...."false barnyard" has.

And it has lyrics of it's own (though so does "good night m'baby sleep tight m'baby"). Were the lyrics intentionally discarded when it became a mere fade? And if so, what was it conceived as? Another interlude?

If these words were to appear at the end, are they saying that the entire wild west story was merely the fantasy of a simple farmer, who fell down in the pig pen and bumped his head and dreamed the song during 2 and a half minutes of unconciousness or something? Will he leave his hat on next time to cushion the blow?

Heroes and Villains is such a mystery in part for the reasons you guys are talking about. At the time, Brian was into a particular period of Smile where he was doing this 3-section style song - Cabinessence, Do You Like Worms, and Heroes and Villains basically fall into that category. It seems as if at first just as Cabinessence had "Home on the Range," "Iron Horse," and "Crow Cries" and Worms had "Plymouth Rock," "Bicycle Rider," and Hawaiian Chant, Heroes seemed to have "Been in this Town," "Great Shape" and "Barnyard." However, it is really hard to see how those parts hang together in the way that it works for Cabin and Worms. And YET despite the fact that it doesn't seem to me, at least, that they don't hang together, it was nevertheless this that Brian saw as being the follow-up to Good Vibrations. So in some way, the whole thing must have made sense to him.

But as the project grows, things get more confusing. Suddenly you have Heroes and Villains Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, and Part 4. And all those parts seem to have radically different parts within them. It becomes really difficult to even get the beginning of an idea as that what he's on about. I just spent a good amount of time yesterday listening specifically to the Heroes bits on Smile Sessions, and it doesn't help matters. For a while I was thinking that the "dit dit dit Heroes and-a Villains" parts would have been thought of as the chorus in the same way that "I'm pickin' up Good Vibrations" was but even that doesn't really seem to hold up as per the slates Brian was giving.

Anyway, I'd love to hear more discussion on this, but I don't know if this is the right place or where that place might be.

[buddhahat]

I had a theory awhile ago that people liked. Basically, I believe "In the Cantina" replaced "I'm In Great Shape" and "False Barnyard" (or whatever the heck it's called) really did replace "Barnyard". It makes sense structurally. And then Brian spun off the farming bits onto their song, "Barnyard Suite", which was never finished.

‘Barnyard’ seems so sluggish and slow, both in it’s “finished” recorded state and (especially) in the Humble Harv tape. While I don’t argue it could potentially be meant for the fade, it certainly seems like an odd choice. Doesn't have that "riding off into the sunset" feeling that...uh...."false barnyard" has.

And it has lyrics of it's own (though so does "good night m'baby sleep tight m'baby"). Were the lyrics intentionally discarded when it became a mere fade? And if so, what was it conceived as? Another interlude?

If these words were to appear at the end, are they saying that the entire wild west story was merely the fantasy of a simple farmer, who fell down in the pig pen and bumped his head and dreamed the song during 2 and a half minutes of unconciousness or something? Will he leave his hat on next time to cushion the blow?

Heroes and Villains is such a mystery in part for the reasons you guys are talking about. At the time, Brian was into a particular period of Smile where he was doing this 3-section style song - Cabinessence, Do You Like Worms, and Heroes and Villains basically fall into that category. It seems as if at first just as Cabinessence had "Home on the Range," "Iron Horse," and "Crow Cries" and Worms had "Plymouth Rock," "Bicycle Rider," and Hawaiian Chant, Heroes seemed to have "Been in this Town," "Great Shape" and "Barnyard." However, it is really hard to see how those parts hang together in the way that it works for Cabin and Worms. And YET despite the fact that it doesn't seem to me, at least, that they don't hang together, it was nevertheless this that Brian saw as being the follow-up to Good Vibrations. So in some way, the whole thing must have made sense to him.

But as the project grows, things get more confusing. Suddenly you have Heroes and Villains Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, and Part 4. And all those parts seem to have radically different parts within them. It becomes really difficult to even get the beginning of an idea as that what he's on about. I just spent a good amount of time yesterday listening specifically to the Heroes bits on Smile Sessions, and it doesn't help matters. For a while I was thinking that the "dit dit dit Heroes and-a Villains" parts would have been thought of as the chorus in the same way that "I'm pickin' up Good Vibrations" was but even that doesn't really seem to hold up as per the slates Brian was giving.

Anyway, I'd love to hear more discussion on this, but I don't know if this is the right place or where that place might be.

I think if you accept the two sided Heroes theory it makes more sense of a lot of the odd sections such as those dit dit parts. They seem to me like a showcase of the Beach Boys vocal acrobatics - riffs on the Heroes theme that would've been perfect B side material: nothing more, nothing less.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I think if you accept the two sided Heroes theory it makes more sense of a lot of the odd sections such as those dit dit parts. They seem to me like a showcase of the Beach Boys vocal acrobatics - riffs on the Heroes theme that would've been perfect B side material: nothing more, nothing less.

Well, I don't fully accept that theory. Again, this just doesn't jive with him by early 1967 referring to sections as Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, and Part 4. Part 2 does have some vocal acrobatics stuff like Gee but it also has the DYLW riff in it and the Cantina section. Part 3 has some of the "doo doo Heroes and Villains" parts but it certainly wouldn't be enough for a B side. Part 4 is the the dum dum whistle distortion section as it was called above. The way Brian was talking about these parts, to me, does not suggest that there was any of this A-side/B-side business going on at this point.

[Cam Mott]

If I understand andy correctly, IIGS probably does not have the distortion at the end, I take it as a butt cut edit before the distortion into butt cut edits of the next two sections. Yes? No? Anybody tried that as an approximation? Could a couple of or all versions of the IIGS instru track [sans Harv demo] be layered to simulate a version with fuller instrumentation? You know by someone not me, someone with the appropriate skills. Would that work?

I've wondered about the distortion too. Why record it with distortion if Brian was not intending to edit out of the explosion effect? But then it's unlikely he'd have IIGS end in the distortion, then have the dum dum whistle distortion section replicate the effect shortly afterwards within the song. It's a shame Andy can't remember whether the explosion effect was present at the end of the IIGS he heard. If there's no tape explosion in the version he heard, maybe Brian had decided to feature the effect later in the song at that point (i.e. in the dum dum whistle distortion section).

Nothing sounds as good coming out of that explosion effect as Barnyard imo. Maybe when he was recording it at the end of IIGS he planned to follow it immediately with the Barnyard fade as per Mark Linnett's edit on TSS. Then a while later he decided to place some sections in between IIGS and Barnard (e.g. My Children were raised, dum dum whistle distortion). Pure, groundless speculation but there you go!

I would love to hear this edit of IIGS + My chldren more than anything right now, but I fear the acetates may have been snapped up by a collector with no will to share the recordings. Let's hope that's not the case.

If he cut it off, maybe he just didn't like it when assembled or didn't think it lent itself to an edit the way he liked or it started to sound gimmicky to him. Who knows.