Alan Boyd Lecture

[Wrightfan]

I got inspired after hearing you describe Alan talking about Heroes having Barnyard and Great Shape so I decided to give it a try:
http://soundcloud.com/andrewhersh/heroes-and-villains-circa-1-67

[NOLA SMiLE]

Very nice, David Wrightfan !

I'd like to hear some of your other creations.  I will PM you.

[Jim V.]

I got inspired after hearing you describe Alan talking about Heroes having Barnyard and Great Shape so I decided to give it a try:
http://soundcloud.com/andrewhersh/heroes-and-villains-circa-1-67

Great attempt Wrightfan! I think you did a great job. The transitions were relatively seamless.

I do have a suggestion though. I personally think that an early "Heroes And Villains" would go as such:

• "I've been in this town..." up to the "dum dum dum" part in "Heroes And Villains: Early Outtake Sections"
• "I'm In Great Shape"
• "Heroes And Villains: Intro (Early Version)"....since at the beginning he calls it's "...part 3" leads me to believe it's part three, with part four being...
• "Barnyard", and since it has a fade, I'd assume that's the end of the song

I tried to do a version like this, but I am just not good at this. Perhaps somebody good at this stuff like you, WrightFan, would be able to make this sound cool. And since they kinda made "new" versions of things on other parts of the set, I think Mark and Alan shoulda maybe taken a chance and done a version with my proposed order. I feel there is definitely historical precedence for it.

[Jeff]

sdj, tr and ph:

There are many reasons I don't think it would come out.

One, there may be some clearance issues that would prevent a new SMiLE piece from coming out. This may be speculation, but it took a lot of navigation between the parties to get the box out. That may be too much to re-navigate for one or two tracks (and the resources used to navigate may no longer be there). Think about how long it took just to get these stereo re-releases out. The tunes, by all accounts, had been completed some time ago and the perfect time to re-release would've been on the 50th Ann, not a year later.

Two, what is revelatory to me and you may not be revelatory to Capitol/Brother Records, who has a finite number of releases on its schedule and wouldn't see one or two tracks as enough to move the needle on a new release. Think about how much "high demand" stuff is in the vaults collecting dust. I know I'd pay a pretty penny to see Live Again, California Feelin' and multiple others.

Three, it hasn't been said what was discovered or anything about its quality. It could be a small fragment, a different edit, etc. It could be in terrible quality and unreleasable. The likelihood of something being discovered from a missing tape seems less likely than the discovery of an old acetate or something like that.

Speaking of sources, was it confirmed that Alan/Mark reviewed the DP acetates and other rumored sources mentioned in Mikie's post? I'd guess there's stuff that wasn't since new stuff is being found.

One is most certainly speculation.  Respectfully, it's blind speculation, and not a reason for thinking that those things would not come out.  And the "navigation" would be the same as for other unreleased tracks.  It's not unique to Smile.

Two doesn't make sense because the record company surely is aware of the enormous amount of press the Smile release received.  That meant $ to them, and they're not so dense as to think they wouldn't get a few more $ with an additional release of Smile material.

Three is again just blind speculation.  And I thought the premise of your comment was that it would not come out even if revelatory.  Here you're arguing that it might not be revelatory.

[buddhahat]

Too bad about the Wild Honey album. That's unfortunate. They were able to get all of Smiley right, but not Wild Honey. Damn! And the vocal tracks to Good Vibrations enabling a true stereo which remain MIA....

Is there something in the thread suggesting stereo Wild Honey isn't on the new remasters agenda, or am I misinterpreting your post? Reading through the thread I can't find any reference to Wild Honey.

And thanks of course to Punkinhead for reporting back. Sounds like a fascinating lecture. New Smile pieces eh? I'd love to hear more about those.

[Wrightfan]

I will try that idea.

I still think the part 3 works well for my mix though
1. I've been in this town
2. Doo-doo-doo-doo
3. Bells

Barnyard as the ending does seem to make sense though.

[hypehat]

Too bad about the Wild Honey album. That's unfortunate. They were able to get all of Smiley right, but not Wild Honey. Damn! And the vocal tracks to Good Vibrations enabling a true stereo which remain MIA....

Is there something in the thread suggesting stereo Wild Honey isn't on the new remasters agenda, or am I misinterpreting your post? Reading through the thread I can't find any reference to Wild Honey.

And thanks of course to Punkinhead for reporting back. Sounds like a fascinating lecture. New Smile pieces eh? I'd love to hear more about those.

It's mentioned in the remaster thread, I think - essentially, a third of Wild Honey can't be mixed to 'true' stereo.

[SMiLE Brian]

Alan found the finished Smile album masters from 1967.....

[buddhahat]

Too bad about the Wild Honey album. That's unfortunate. They were able to get all of Smiley right, but not Wild Honey. Damn! And the vocal tracks to Good Vibrations enabling a true stereo which remain MIA....

Is there something in the thread suggesting stereo Wild Honey isn't on the new remasters agenda, or am I misinterpreting your post? Reading through the thread I can't find any reference to Wild Honey.

And thanks of course to Punkinhead for reporting back. Sounds like a fascinating lecture. New Smile pieces eh? I'd love to hear more about those.

It's mentioned in the remaster thread, I think - essentially, a third of Wild Honey can't be mixed to 'true' stereo.

Thanks Hypehat. So we'll be getting no complete stereo remaster of Wild Honey? 

[KokoNO]

Alan Boyd is old.



































But Mike Love still fucks the young. 

[Mikie]

Hang on.  Lemme get my "Troll-B-Gone" spray.

[SMiLE Brian]

Hang on.  Lemme get my "Troll-B-Gone" spray.

How many troll kill marks you got on that bottle....

[Mikie]

4 troll kill skeletons on the can so far, SB.   It's starting to run low.....

Hope the fluorocarbons from the spray can don't affect your breathing too much.

[Micha]

"Barnyard", and since it has a fade, I'd assume that's the end of the song

I assume it's not the end of the song, and I don't think it really fades. My asumption is after Barnyard there would have been the third verse (My children/At three score), and then OMP, Sunshine, fade.

[Jim V.]

I will try that idea.

I still think the part 3 works well for my mix though
1. I've been in this town
2. Doo-doo-doo-doo
3. Bells

Barnyard as the ending does seem to make sense though.

Oh no, your mix definitely works well. And it definitely seems more like a journey than the official versions do. Which I guess is kinda what they were aiming for?

[CarlTheVoice]

Going back to earlier on in the thread, I would LOVE to hear those Carl vocals, they HAVE to come out!

[buddhahat]

"Barnyard", and since it has a fade, I'd assume that's the end of the song

I assume it's not the end of the song, and I don't think it really fades. My asumption is after Barnyard there would have been the third verse (My children/At three score), and then OMP, Sunshine, fade.

But Brian put the fade on Barnyard, right, so he must have intended it to be a fade at some point. I've always presumed it was initially the fade for Heroes & Villains. It works better as a fade than a transitional piece imo.

[Micha]

"Barnyard", and since it has a fade, I'd assume that's the end of the song

I assume it's not the end of the song, and I don't think it really fades. My asumption is after Barnyard there would have been the third verse (My children/At three score), and then OMP, Sunshine, fade.

But Brian put the fade on Barnyard, right, so he must have intended it to be a fade at some point. I've always presumed it was initially the fade for Heroes & Villains. It works better as a fade than a transitional piece imo.

Well, here we are in the field of opinions, so my point of view is no better than yours. I disagree respectfully and do not like Barnyard as a fade. I agree it would have been not very easy to make a smooth transition from Barnyard the way it was recorded. Which may be a reason why it was dropped (assumption).

That "Brian put the fade on Barnyard" is IMHO an assumption, too, because he actually left Barnyard unfinished, and the version with the fade is just a test mix, so it doesn't mean it was supposed to be a fade. If he'd say "this is the fade" on the Humble Harv tape I'd agree, but he says "here's another section". But as I said, your opinion is as valid as mine.

[mike s]

I think barnyard was almost certainly the fade

I can't think of one other acetate that fades out unless it was obviously at the end of a song (pls correct me if I'm wrong here)

also you can't get out of barnyard unless you do a hard cut, and to what..?  I've never been able to match it up with anything that sounds right - keywise you can go into the fast 'my children' section but the rhythm is not right

actually it just hit me BY cut into C&W them has similar tempo, I might give that a try, however I think BY feels like a fade

[mike s]

ok I just tries the BY/C&W edit and it really works, the tempo and texture of the 2 is very similar - small snag though that we don't have clean vocals for my children do we so it would have to be severely bodged which is against my authentic song ethic

thats always the problem with H&V:  getting in and out of the sections + lead vox (unless your personal mix is pretty close to the single)

I think barnyard was almost certainly the fade

I can't think of one other acetate that fades out unless it was obviously at the end of a song (pls correct me if I'm wrong here)

also you can't get out of barnyard unless you do a hard cut, and to what..?  I've never been able to match it up with anything that sounds right - keywise you can go into the fast 'my children' section but the rhythm is not right

actually it just hit me BY cut into C&W them has similar tempo, I might give that a try, however I think BY feels like a fade

[Micha]

I tried something too. Edit out of Barnyard

I'm surprised myself it works in terms of speed.

[punkinhead]

My collage/card is up on my facebook (Justin Plank)...I took pictures of each page, let me know what you think. I'll try to post em on here if I can figure that out.

[mike s]

yeah that sounds great - try BY into C&W and see what you think 

I really like your transition but the actual ascending harmony part I'm not so keen on:  it does sound to me like it was written to bridge an awkward chord change..?

I tried something too. Edit out of Barnyard

I'm surprised myself it works in terms of speed.

[mike s]

ok just got a great hard cut from BY to the fast 'my children' section:  you have to use one of the fan mixes of BY which puts the 'na na na' vox by Brian at the end and also has the french horn in there - the french really horn blends into the BVs on the 'my childen' section

it sounds fantastic and is a way out of BY 

yeah that sounds great - try BY into C&W and see what you think 

I really like your transition but the actual ascending harmony part I'm not so keen on:  it does sound to me like it was written to bridge an awkward chord change..?

I tried something too. Edit out of Barnyard

I'm surprised myself it works in terms of speed.

[monicker]

I tried something too. Edit out of Barnyard

I'm surprised myself it works in terms of speed.

Dang, i really like that a lot.