Why does Brian sing out of the side of his mouth ?

[Justin]

I love this board but it's without a doubt the most unfriendly board towards newbies I've ever experienced..

I think BB's fans have a low tolerance or something 

Actually Slim, I've noticed that all the boards online that are most respected and the most esteemed, yes, are the ones that are tougher for the newbie.  Smiley Smile is no exception.  I'm on a few other boards that happen to be also labeled "the best" for their respective bands and it can be no picnic for the new folks.  I sympathize with the OP of this thread because I feel the same way in another board I'm on where I've been there since the board's inception and I'm totally fed up with the "direction" the board is taking.  So I totally get that POV.

It's not this board's fault per se, but a board is only labeled as "the best" because it implies that it is filled with very knowledgeable and serious folks who know their stuff!  And we're lucky that Smiley Smile is filled with them!  That may not be so easy for the newbie coming in still trying to learn the ropes but the general rule for any online community should be that the older "residents" of the board should be a little tolerant and simultaneously the newbies on the board should participate but still keep themselves in check while not rocking the boat too hard. 

[Justin]

Justin, you are a fairly new guy in here that I am grateful showed up. You are smart , concise and you stay on topic. Also, a big thanks for tracking all 51 U.S. Reunion shows.

Yup. A BIG "+1" from me on that one.

Thank you Pixel!  I'm glad to be around some good peeps!

[JanBerryFarm]

Most likely genetics. Audree was known to do it, as well.

Correct.


end of story? probably not. 

[hypehat]

It's just a messageboard - anyone who comes here is inevitably very curious about the group, and I'd hate to get mean and turn them away because of that. If it's bothering you, I'd suggest taking a beat and, y'know, doing something else 

[AndrewHickey]

I think also that there's a qualitative difference within Beach Boys fandom, in that so much of the accurate information about the band belongs to, for want of a better term, the oral tradition within fandom.

While there are *now* some factually accurate books about the band available, there are far more inaccurate ones. Someone starting out as, say, a Beatles fan will probably start by picking up the Lewisohn book and Revolution In The Head, and will get those *before* finding books by Geoffrey Giulliani or a similar hack. They won't be starting from a position of falsehood.

But if you go and look for books on the Beach Boys, the places most people will start are the Gaines book or Wouldn't It Be Nice or Badman or Look, Listen, Vibrate, Smile! -- those all *look* like authoritative sources in their different ways, especially since WIBN plagiarises so much of the Gaines book.

So until relatively recently, with the more accurate books, the *only* way to get any kind of a clue was to be a participant in the various online discussions. And the older books are still dominating the discourse. The result of this is that while newbies on most boards are clueless, newbies on Beach Boys boards may actually have negative clue, and need to be disabused of falsehoods before they can even begin starting to get an accurate idea...

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

"To everything, turn, turn, turn, there is a season, turn, turn, turn."

This board has had it's major ups and downs.  I'm not the longest running Beach Boys fan by a long ways, but there are not many of us left here that were original Smile Shop posters who have stayed on board.

There's always turn-over, and always going to be a give and take.  Sadly, we will likely never see Mark Linett and Alan Boyd posting here again.  The days of them adding their wisdom are gone.  Desper may never be a real presence again.  These things happen, and thankfully most of the best stuff has been archived.

That's just the nature of life.  People's interest levels come and go.  I never went seriously to the Record Room break-off board because they like other pop music besides the Beach Boys.  I don't.

We're a narrow-interest board here.  By and large, we are the most educated group of Beach Boys fans out there.  Anybody coming on-board has a steep learning curve. 

It is what it is.  Don't "bow out."  My posting activity waxes and wanes, but not by design.  I go where the interesting topics are.  Someday, we will run out of things to talk about.  When that day comes, we'll know that it's time to throw in the towel, I think.

[DonnyL]

It's just a messageboard - anyone who comes here is inevitably very curious about the group, and I'd hate to get mean and turn them away because of that. If it's bothering you, I'd suggest taking a beat and, y'know, doing something else  

easy enough for me to get lost, but I'm speaking for more than just myself. And the collective wealth of knowledge (potentially the ultimate Beach Boys info database) that is getting watered down and threatening extinction is also being lost ... assuming you're cool with that, carry on.

for the record, I'm not opposed to 'newbie' questions -- sometimes they're really on point and kick-start a fresh conversation. the problem is the nature of the topics. It also shows a lack of respect for the credibility of this board to mindlessly post question after question, survey after survey on whatever whim you have at that moment. There is a place for it ... I would argue it's not really 'on topic' in a sense.

But there is a problem when 8 out of 10 topics are mostly drivel and noise.

Yes, I don't agree that this is 'just a message board' -- that attitude is part of the problem. I see it as a legitimate database of information. And I try to add anything that I can to that, not just flap my wings and try to sing the loudest.

[Banana]

I am a "newbie" to this forum.  Chasing young kids around the house consumes most of my freetime...so I was completely unaware of this group until it was brought up in discussion with another fan at one of the reunion shows.  I immediately decided I needed to check it out and sign up.  I'm by no means the world's biggest expert on the group, but I like to think I know quite a bit more than the "average" fan.  I was bit by the bug at a fairly early age and my interest in the band had only grown with every year that passes.  I've actually found the forum to be fairly welcoming (maybe I haven't asked a dumb enough question, yet) and I look forward to being around for awhile.  I agree that there probably was a bump when the band emerged back into the public's eye...and yes...you are going to get some casual fans who ask what we consider "dumb" questions...but as another poster noted...it's good that more people are taking an interest (even a casual interest) in the band.

[The Shift]

Justin, you are a fairly new guy in here that I am grateful showed up. You are smart , concise and you stay on topic. Also, a big thanks for tracking all 51 U.S. Reunion shows.

Yup. A BIG "+1" from me on that one.

Concur.

And yes there might be a few rogue posters but this is still the Number One board for me… still learning plenty.  Unfortunately I don't always take in/retain/absorb things as fast or as permanently as I should… That means I'm probably the least-well informed of all the remaining Smile Shop inhabitants, and have been responsible for my own fair share of cruddy posts.

But what the heck, this is a fine place to be.

[DonnyL]

"To everything, turn, turn, turn, there is a season, turn, turn, turn."

This board has had it's major ups and downs.  I'm not the longest running Beach Boys fan by a long ways, but there are not many of us left here that were original Smile Shop posters who have stayed on board.

There's always turn-over, and always going to be a give and take.  Sadly, we will likely never see Mark Linett and Alan Boyd posting here again.  The days of them adding their wisdom are gone.  Desper may never be a real presence again.  These things happen, and thankfully most of the best stuff has been archived.

That's just the nature of life.  People's interest levels come and go.  I never went seriously to the Record Room break-off board because they like other pop music besides the Beach Boys.  I don't.

We're a narrow-interest board here.  By and large, we are the most educated group of Beach Boys fans out there.  Anybody coming on-board has a steep learning curve. 

It is what it is.  Don't "bow out."  My posting activity waxes and wanes, but not by design.  I go where the interesting topics are.  Someday, we will run out of things to talk about.  When that day comes, we'll know that it's time to throw in the towel, I think.

Perhaps it's just a sign of the times in any case.

Still, it's so sad to watch a sweet thing die.

[guitarfool2002]

Oh Caroline, why?

(someone had to do it...)

[Shady]

It's just a messageboard - anyone who comes here is inevitably very curious about the group, and I'd hate to get mean and turn them away because of that. If it's bothering you, I'd suggest taking a beat and, y'know, doing something else  

easy enough for me to get lost, but I'm speaking for more than just myself. And the collective wealth of knowledge (potentially the ultimate Beach Boys info database) that is getting watered down and threatening extinction is also being lost ... assuming you're cool with that, carry on.

for the record, I'm not opposed to 'newbie' questions -- sometimes they're really on point and kick-start a fresh conversation. the problem is the nature of the topics. It also shows a lack of respect for the credibility of this board to mindlessly post question after question, survey after survey on whatever whim you have at that moment. There is a place for it ... I would argue it's not really 'on topic' in a sense.

But there is a problem when 8 out of 10 topics are mostly drivel and noise.

Yes, I don't agree that this is 'just a message board' -- that attitude is part of the problem. I see it as a legitimate database of information. And I try to add anything that I can to that, not just flap my wings and try to sing the loudest.

"But there is a problem when 8 out of 10 topics are mostly drivel and noise."

Total BS

You're expecting too much from the board, not every topic is going to be gold..

If a thread doesn't interest you just avoid it because there's a good chance it's benefiting somebody else

[Amanda Hart]

I don't think this board is dying at all. I post pretty infrequently, but I've been reading regularly since 2006 and I agree that there has been a different feeling over the last few months. I think it just comes down to a lot of new people coming on with all the excitement first around TSS, then all the 50th stuff. Things will likely revert back to the way they were, as either these new people start to drop off or become more educated on the band as they explore here. The only real problem is when people treat each other badly and scare off good posters. I mean, I kind of agree that some of the inane questions that a quick search or minimal reading could answer are tiresome, but everybody has to start somewhere.

[Aegir]

I think we need to acknowledge the elephant in the room which is that most of the stupid threads are started by Newguy.

[pixletwin]

I think we need to acknowledge the elephant in the room which is that most of the stupid threads are started by Newguy.

Beware! I have learned Newguy has some staunch support 'round here. 

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I think we need to acknowledge the elephant in the room which is that most of the stupid threads are started by Newguy.

Beware! I have learned Newguy has some staunch support 'round here. 

You just have to be selective in what you open.  I also disagree that it's quite as bad as 8 out of every 10 topics are drivel, but here's my formula, and it's kept me around these parts for something like ten-plus years:

1.  Open the obviously cool topics right away.  Example:  "Holy sh*t!  I found a photo of the booth showing both guitarists playing the Intro to Wouldn't It Be Nice."

2.  Rely on people you know to point you to hidden topics, either in other threads or in PM.

3.  If a topic looks marginal, see if it makes it to 3 or 4 pages, and then check the last page.

4.  If a topic looks dumb, check the author.  If it's somebody you don't especially enjoy reading, don't open the thread.  If the thread makes it to 8 pages or something, maybe check it out.

5.  If the topic looks dumb, but the author is definitely not, give the author the benefit of the doubt, particularly if it has made it to two pages.  Example:  "Why does Brian sing out of the side of his mouth?" by DonnyL

6.  Sometimes you're in the mood for some silly stuff, so you open a thread you know will be dubious and just get into it.

[DonnyL]

It's just a messageboard - anyone who comes here is inevitably very curious about the group, and I'd hate to get mean and turn them away because of that. If it's bothering you, I'd suggest taking a beat and, y'know, doing something else  

easy enough for me to get lost, but I'm speaking for more than just myself. And the collective wealth of knowledge (potentially the ultimate Beach Boys info database) that is getting watered down and threatening extinction is also being lost ... assuming you're cool with that, carry on.

for the record, I'm not opposed to 'newbie' questions -- sometimes they're really on point and kick-start a fresh conversation. the problem is the nature of the topics. It also shows a lack of respect for the credibility of this board to mindlessly post question after question, survey after survey on whatever whim you have at that moment. There is a place for it ... I would argue it's not really 'on topic' in a sense.

But there is a problem when 8 out of 10 topics are mostly drivel and noise.

Yes, I don't agree that this is 'just a message board' -- that attitude is part of the problem. I see it as a legitimate database of information. And I try to add anything that I can to that, not just flap my wings and try to sing the loudest.

"But there is a problem when 8 out of 10 topics are mostly drivel and noise."

Total BS

You're expecting too much from the board, not every topic is going to be gold..

If a thread doesn't interest you just avoid it because there's a good chance it's benefiting somebody else

The thing is, this board has always been hit or miss ... with most threads somewhere between 'drivel' and 'gold' (sometimes both!) ... yeh, that sort of comes with the territory of a message board.

Ignoring the increases in 'misses' and decrease in 'hits', my main concern is that anything resembling a valid, intelligent thread fades far too quickly, with the same 10 or so posters really uncovering more questions than answers, and little real, legitimate info coming forth before the thread fades into obscurity.

I would love to see a 'scholarly topics' or 'serious discussion' (whatever you want to name it ... don't want to get too pretentious!) section. Perhaps something where you have to register with a real email address. and it's monitored for quality control. this would encourage more 'honored guests' to post without the noise. it would also be a place where normal, intelligent threads can remain relevant instead of being buried under, "what would happen if 'chug-a-lug' was on PET SOUNDS!?!?!".

Otherwise ... the writing is on the wall.

[DonnyL]

I think we need to acknowledge the elephant in the room which is that most of the stupid threads are started by Newguy.

Beware! I have learned Newguy has some staunch support 'round here.  

You just have to be selective in what you open.  I also disagree that it's quite as bad as 8 out of every 10 topics are drivel, but here's my formula, and it's kept me around these parts for something like ten-plus years:

1.  Open the obviously cool topics right away.  Example:  "Holy sh*t!  I found a photo of the booth showing both guitarists playing the Intro to Wouldn't It Be Nice."

2.  Rely on people you know to point you to hidden topics, either in other threads or in PM.

3.  If a topic looks marginal, see if it makes it to 3 or 4 pages, and then check the last page.

4.  If a topic looks dumb, check the author.  If it's somebody you don't especially enjoy reading, don't open the thread.  If the thread makes it to 8 pages or something, maybe check it out.

5.  If the topic looks dumb, but the author is definitely not, give the author the benefit of the doubt, particularly if it has made it to two pages.  Example:  "Why does Brian sing out of the side of his mouth?" by DonnyL

6.  Sometimes you're in the mood for some silly stuff, so you open a thread you know will be dubious and just get into it.

good advice.

I suppose my real concern is that this place has become more of a wasteland, and there are no real alternatives. so i feel like the kind of discussions that are worthy of an archive simply don't have an outlet to become fully realized anymore. i'm really more concerned about the greater good than my own personal reading enjoyment.

[Justin]

Your good intentions for the board are admirable, Donny! 

I think you and a few others here were so used to this board being a much "smaller" group during a time when there was almost nothing going on in the Beach Boys world; it was pretty quiet out there which in turn probably made it pretty quiet here on the board.  That, no doubt, allowed for many more serious topics to be flushed out without any of that surrounding "noise." With the mini avalanche of stuff like TSS and the reunion we've gotten, it's only to be expected that the best BB board on the net was going to react to all that.  Give it a few months and things will simmer down again.

[Jon Stebbins]

I vote the "All Summer Long Is The Worst Beach Boys Album" thread as the most ridiculous thread topic I've seen on here, and that's saying something. BTW I like DonnyL's way of sliding this board deterioration topic in with a bit of irony...perfect subject line.

[Aegir]

Sorry you have a problem with the fact that taste is subjective.

[DonnyL]

Your good intentions for the board are admirable, Donny! 

I think you and a few others here were so used to this board being a much "smaller" group during a time when there was almost nothing going on in the Beach Boys world; it was pretty quiet out there which in turn probably made it pretty quiet here on the board.  That, no doubt, allowed for many more serious topics to be flushed out without any of that surrounding "noise." With the mini avalanche of stuff like TSS and the reunion we've gotten, it's only to be expected that the best BB board on the net was going to react to all that.  Give it a few months and things will simmer down again.

that's correct in a sense ... In my case, I've been off and on BB message boards for many many years (late '90s?), but have never really been a mega-poster anywhere. So, it's not really the 'community' element that's disturbing ... I was never really part of the community in the first place.

what i'm remembering is that a handful of people directly related to the BB world used to post here (and elsewhere) fairly often ... during that time, the topics tended to be more interesting, and the tone of the board was a lot more respectful.

this isn't directly related to the reunion ... certainly it's coming to a head as a result, but it started even before the Smile box and has been gradually building.

The basic point I'm making is: Many people here are not treating the board and it's members with respect. This is exemplified by the lack of tact, as well as the frivolous topics.

[DonnyL]

I vote the "All Summer Long Is The Worst Beach Boys Album" thread as the most ridiculous thread topic I've seen on here, and that's saying something. BTW I like DonnyL's way of sliding this board deterioration topic in with a bit of irony...perfect subject line.

yeh, that one was particularly painful. that was posted at a time when i was playing the mono LP almost daily.

[Jon Stebbins]

Sorry you have a problem with the fact that taste is subjective.

Do we really need a Pet Sounds Sucks thread on here, or a Surfs Up Is Brian's Weakest Song thread, or Carl Was A Horrible Vocalist thread? Really? You think that adds something to the discourse on the board? I have no problem with subjectivity, but I hate vandalism. IMO It just dumbs down the entire exchange of ideas.

[NHC]

Every year I get a little grumpier.

No need. Giants are back in first place.