BBs Setlist For Monterey Pop

[Jukka]

^ I agree, though just to keep this scenario realistic I'd replace "Our Prayer" with "Their Hearts Were Full of Spring".

[guitarfool2002]

"The Letter" by the Box Tops wasn't appearing on the surveys or radio playlists until August 1967, maybe appearing only as a "HitBound" new showing as early as the last week in July 1967 - and Monterey Pop happened in mid-June 1967, so I don't think that tune could be included. The reason why I think the BB's did it in Hawaii is because the timing of those shows the last week of August '67 coincided with "The Letter" becoming the number one record on LA radio. They were playing the current number one hit record in their show...as their own current single Heroes was hovering between #30 and #10, depending on the market. I think its best showing overall was in the Boston area, if I remember...

I'm guessing whatever setlist they had performed on the tour most current to June 1967 would have been done at Monterey. However...my own opinion...if they would have done anything as laid-back as they would soon do in Hawaii, i think Brian was right in thinking they would have gotten blown off the stage that weekend. I also don't think Heroes would have been performed as it had not been released, and the most current song they'd be able to pull off would have been Good Vibrations. Nothing else was ready.

It was the Beach Boys' touring sound system which was used at Monterey, yet Wally Heider himself can be seen in the film trying to rescue his microphones as chaos is happening on the stage.

I wanted to repost this to remind people reading that the song "The Letter" could not have been a part of anything real or imaginary at Monterey Pop because that record had not been released at the time of Monterey Pop.

[KittyKat]

Wikipedia has a partial set list for all three days of the Monterey Pop Festival, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monterey_Pop_Festival_(Set_List).  The Beach Boys would have fit right in without having to change their act.  There were pop acts on the bill that were even softer than the Beach Boys.  The Association, Lou Rawls, Johnny Rivers, Mamas & Papas, Scott McKenzie, and Simon and Garfunkel were among the acts, none of whom were harder or hipper than the Beach Boys.  Johnny Rivers even performed "Help Me, Rhonda" in his set.  The best day for them to go on would have been the first day, since the softer acts were mostly playing then.  The final night was Jimi Hendrix, but the Mamas and the Papas went on after Jimi to close the show.

[Jukka]

I don't know if this has already been discussed somewhere, but what if Beach Boys would have made it to Monterey? Everything else would have been the same: Smile is delayed and scrapped, Baldwin-heavy Smiley Smile is recorded... Would one festival appearance really made any difference? Monterey no-show is always mentioned as one of their greatest failures, but was it really that significant? Sounds kinda weird. The Doors turned down Woodstock, and it didn't affect their career one bit.

[KittyKat]

I don't know if this has already been discussed somewhere, but what if Beach Boys would have made it to Monterey? Everything else would have been the same: Smile is delayed and scrapped, Baldwin-heavy Smiley Smile is recorded... Would one festival appearance really made any difference? Monterey no-show is always mentioned as one of their greatest failures, but was it really that significant? Sounds kinda weird. The Doors turned down Woodstock, and it didn't affect their career one bit.

I agree that it may have made no difference one way or the other if the Beach Boys appeared at the festival.  The acts that benefited from it the most were somewhat unknown in the United States, Jimi Hendrix and The Who.  I don't think it made any difference at all for acts that were already established, such as the Byrds. 

[Jcc]

Interesting thread.  Here's my imaginary take on Monterey Pop.  Of course, this assumes that a full-on finished SMiLE is released in March or April 1967.

This is an interesting time for the Beach Boys.  SMiLE comes out and the Beatles still got nothin', at least not for another couple months when Sergeant Pepper is released.  But, like Pet Sounds, the album is quite the departure from their pre-1966 work, and so the band is still in the weird transition period between the Hits Surf Group they were and the Intellectual, deep, Generation Defining Band they would become.    The band appears at Monterey in outfits looking similar to the SMiLE album jacket...no striped shirts here.  BW (1967 version)  is here too; the stakes are high.  The band saunters out on stage, backed by a cadre of Wrecking Crew musicians brought from Los Angeles.

The Setlist:
1) Our Prayer/Gee
2) Heroes and Villains [full SMiLE version]
3) Sloop John B
4) Wouldn't It Be Nice
5) I Get Around
6) California Girls
7) God Only Knows
Surf's Up
9) Mrs. O'Leary's Cow [Dennis lights a fire on stage during this one]
10) Blue Hawaii
11) Our Prayer Outro/Good Vibrations
12) Surfin' USA [encore]
13) Fun Fun Fun [2nd Encore]

[Cabinessenceking]

I don't know if this has already been discussed somewhere, but what if Beach Boys would have made it to Monterey? Everything else would have been the same: Smile is delayed and scrapped, Baldwin-heavy Smiley Smile is recorded... Would one festival appearance really made any difference? Monterey no-show is always mentioned as one of their greatest failures, but was it really that significant? Sounds kinda weird. The Doors turned down Woodstock, and it didn't affect their career one bit.

I agree that it may have made no difference one way or the other if the Beach Boys appeared at the festival.  The acts that benefited from it the most were somewhat unknown in the United States, Jimi Hendrix and The Who.  I don't think it made any difference at all for acts that were already established, such as the Byrds. 

I think Smiley woulda tanked anyway even if they did perform (it woulda reached higher perhaps). If Smile had been released then a whole other thing woulda happened (as has been discussed many times). The Mamas & The Papas started fading in popularity after Monterey Pop.

[KittyKat]

I'm not sure Smile would have been a hit had they released it in 1966/67 or had performed it at Monterey, but that's a can of worms and most Brian Wilson and even some non-Briancentric Beach Boys fans wouldn't agree. The Smile album has no real rock tracks on it that feature heavy electric guitars.  That's one thing that Sgt. Pepper had over Smile, the hard rock guitars that were much more popular among large segments of fans back then.  The Beatles always had harder rocking, electric guitar-driven tracks among the light pop numbers on their albums, so they had that to appeal to the rock crowd that were embracing folks like Jimi Hendrix and the Who.  Hard rock seemed to be where it was at in 1967 at least as far as the Fillmore West types and the new Rolling Stone magazine.

[Jukka]

I'm not sure Smile would have been a hit had they released it in 1966/67 or had performed it at Monterey, but that's a can of worms and most Brian Wilson and even some non-Briancentric Beach Boys fans wouldn't agree. The Smile album has no real rock tracks on it that feature heavy electric guitars.  That's one thing that Sgt. Pepper had over Smile, the hard rock guitars that were much more popular among large segments of fans back then.  The Beatles always had harder rocking, electric guitar-driven tracks among the light pop numbers on their albums, so they had that to appeal to the rock crowd that were embracing folks like Jimi Hendrix and the Who.  Hard rock seemed to be where it was at in 1967 at least as far as the Fillmore West types and the new Rolling Stone magazine.

Well, yeaaah... But really, Sgt. Pepper's isn't really that hard rocking. Only the title track and it's reprise are proper guitar rock, and even they are kind of ironic "show numbers". Sgt. Pepper's is rooted in music hall / variety show type thing. Indian flavors, old-time jazz and some light psychedelia... Something for everyone. "Good Morning Good Morning" kind of rocks, but even it isn't exactly face-melting guitarfest.

I think Smile had a chance, but the long delay killed the hype and momentum. Only Beatles (and Dylan) could afford so long pauses between albums back then, I guess.

[Jukka]

I'm not sure Smile would have been a hit had they released it in 1966/67 or had performed it at Monterey, but that's a can of worms and most Brian Wilson and even some non-Briancentric Beach Boys fans wouldn't agree. The Smile album has no real rock tracks on it that feature heavy electric guitars.  That's one thing that Sgt. Pepper had over Smile, the hard rock guitars that were much more popular among large segments of fans back then.  The Beatles always had harder rocking, electric guitar-driven tracks among the light pop numbers on their albums, so they had that to appeal to the rock crowd that were embracing folks like Jimi Hendrix and the Who.  Hard rock seemed to be where it was at in 1967 at least as far as the Fillmore West types and the new Rolling Stone magazine.

Well, yeaaah... But really, Sgt. Pepper's isn't that hard rocking. Only the title track and it's reprise are proper guitar rock, and even they are kind of ironic "show numbers". Sgt. Pepper's is rooted in music hall / variety show type thing. Indian flavors, old-time jazz and some light psychedelia... Something for everyone. "Good Morning Good Morning" kind of rocks, but even it isn't exactly face-melting guitarfest.

I think Smile had a chance, but the long delay killed the hype and momentum. Only Beatles (and Dylan) could afford so long pauses between albums back then, I guess.

[Jukka]

I'm not sure Smile would have been a hit had they released it in 1966/67 or had performed it at Monterey, but that's a can of worms and most Brian Wilson and even some non-Briancentric Beach Boys fans wouldn't agree. The Smile album has no real rock tracks on it that feature heavy electric guitars.  That's one thing that Sgt. Pepper had over Smile, the hard rock guitars that were much more popular among large segments of fans back then.  The Beatles always had harder rocking, electric guitar-driven tracks among the light pop numbers on their albums, so they had that to appeal to the rock crowd that were embracing folks like Jimi Hendrix and the Who.  Hard rock seemed to be where it was at in 1967 at least as far as the Fillmore West types and the new Rolling Stone magazine.

Well, yeaaah... But really, Sgt. Pepper's isn't that hard rocking. Only the title track and it's reprise are proper guitar rock, and even they are kind of ironic "show numbers". Sgt. Pepper's is rooted in music hall / variety show type thing. Indian flavors, old-time jazz and some light psychedelia... Something for everyone. "Good Morning Good Morning" kind of rocks, but even it isn't exactly face-melting guitarfest.

I think Smile had a chance, but the long delay killed the hype and momentum. Only Beatles (and Dylan) could afford so long pauses between albums back then, I guess.
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[Jukka]

I'm not sure Smile would have been a hit had they released it in 1966/67 or had performed it at Monterey, but that's a can of worms and most Brian Wilson and even some non-Briancentric Beach Boys fans wouldn't agree. The Smile album has no real rock tracks on it that feature heavy electric guitars.  That's one thing that Sgt. Pepper had over Smile, the hard rock guitars that were much more popular among large segments of fans back then.  The Beatles always had harder rocking, electric guitar-driven tracks among the light pop numbers on their albums, so they had that to appeal to the rock crowd that were embracing folks like Jimi Hendrix and the Who.  Hard rock seemed to be where it was at in 1967 at least as far as the Fillmore West types and the new Rolling Stone magazine.

Well, yeaaah... But really, Sgt. Pepper's isn't that hard rocking. Only the title track and it's reprise are proper guitar rock, and even they are kind of ironic "show numbers". Sgt. Pepper's is rooted in music hall / variety show type thing. Indian flavors, old-time jazz and some light psychedelia... Something for everyone. "Good Morning Good Morning" kind of rocks, but even it isn't exactly face-melting guitarfest.

I think Smile had a chance, but the long delay killed the hype and momentum. Only Beatles (and Dylan) could afford so long pauses between albums back then, I guess.

[Jukka]

I'm not sure Smile would have been a hit had they released it in 1966/67 or had performed it at Monterey, but that's a can of worms and most Brian Wilson and even some non-Briancentric Beach Boys fans wouldn't agree. The Smile album has no real rock tracks on it that feature heavy electric guitars.  That's one thing that Sgt. Pepper had over Smile, the hard rock guitars that were much more popular among large segments of fans back then.  The Beatles always had harder rocking, electric guitar-driven tracks among the light pop numbers on their albums, so they had that to appeal to the rock crowd that were embracing folks like Jimi Hendrix and the Who.  Hard rock seemed to be where it was at in 1967 at least as far as the Fillmore West types and the new Rolling Stone magazine.

Well, yeaaah... But really, Sgt. Pepper's isn't that hard rocking. Only the title track and it's reprise are proper guitar rock, and even they are kind of ironic "show numbers". Sgt. Pepper's is rooted in music hall / variety show type thing. Indian flavors, old-time jazz and some light psychedelia... Something for everyone. "Good Morning Good Morning" kind of rocks, but even it isn't exactly face-melting guitarfest.

I think Smile had a chance, but the long delay killed the hype and momentum. Only Beatles (and Dylan) could afford so long pauses between albums back then, I guess.

[guitarfool2002]

Just a few random thoughts for the conversation:

Monterey Pop became the stuff of legend after the show itself, which is usually the case. Having a great film tightly edited by D.A. Pennebaker helped solidify the legendary status of the event and tell perhaps a bigger story than what actually happened over a few full days of events. The weekend was a big deal, but remember there was no instant media in June 1967 - apart from local radio, the Monterey Pop festival story would be spread through fanzines and most important through the film documentary.

I ask this: How many average folks have actually seen or heard more than *one song* from any given artist's performance at the festival? We know the Who smash-up routine, we've seen California Dreamin, we've seen Janis singing her knockout song - yet even that was somewhat contrived and controlled because they didn't capture her original performance, which was apparently even more electric and intense, so they staged it again and re-filmed it.

It's a filmmaker controlling what we see as reality - How good were the rest of the songs? Was it one highlight out of ten lesser songs, or was it an electric set from start to finish, like Jimi Hendrix whose full set can be seen on video? How did the crowd react at that moment? A filmmaker can take a reaction shot, positive or negative, from any given moment over the course of the event, edit that onto any given performance clip, and completely change the perception of that event. Powerful.

I also think the media played up certain elements of the actual staging of this event, especially the notion that some music writers still promote, how it was the death knell of the Los Angeles studio based bands, and how the blues-rock "edgier" San Francisco vibe would soon rule the day. Like it was a throwdown during the festival - "There's a new sheriff in town!" kind of thing...it just wasn't so.

Look at the bands featured, and how many of them were a major part of the whole LA-Sunset Strip scene. It was just a music festival, a weekend of music where fans could come to hear a lot of good bands play. We see only a fraction of what happened, we know only what some of the participants and journalists who like to tell stories of the event will tell us - filtered through their own bias, of course.

Put the Beach Boys into this mix, and imagine they had actually taken the stage. The closest comparison we can actually hear might be the Hawaii shows, as many others have mentioned. Subtract the Smiley Smile material, and take *that* setlist and that sound. The real speculation happens when you consider a majority of the Monterey "house band" had played on Brian's studio sessions and knew the songs, would they have been the musicians? Or would it have been the Hawaii core band of only Beach Boys?

Look at the Los Angeles-based bands surrounding the Beach Boys on the festival lineup - these were their peers, these were people who interacted and walked the same paths as Brian and the Boys, bands who knew them, respected Brian's work, and in the case of even The Who, bands who were actual fans of the Beach Boys' music!

I would agree that if the Beach Boys had taken the stage and done a typical routine with stage banter, striped shirts, and all of that not even considering the music itself, it probably would *not* have gone over too well that weekend. That stage bit worked for a different fan base than would have been there in summer 1967.

The issue with The Beach Boys and Monterey Pop might be their collective ignorance of how much respect they actually did have not only among other bands but also among fans who were at Monterey Pop. I have to think there were other, more private reasons why they didn't perform apart from a fear of getting rejected or booed while doing a set, or whatever else was listed.

It's a shame the timing was what it was, because June 1967 wasn't necessarily a banner month for the band, in retrospect. They seemed to be existing in their own bubble at that time, in the wake of Smile.

[KittyKat]

The fact that Micky Dolenz and Brian Jones were there and not hiding in some kind of VIP section shows there was a music industry slant to the crowd.  So, yeah, I think the Beach Boys would have had a friendlier audience at Monterey there than some Beach Boys' bios have implied.  Though I do think they would have avoided playing with the house band if at all possible because of all the flak the Monkees got for not playing their own instruments.  It was apparently a big deal during that time.  The Beach Boys weren't that bad.  They were no worse at playing their instruments than Big Brother and the Holding Company (I speak of the band itself, not Janis Joplin). 

[Lonely Summer]

I'm one of those who think far too much is made of the BB's non appearance at Monterey. For the most part, my favorite acts of the era were not there. Where were the Kinks? Paul Revere and the Raiders? The Lovin' Spoonful? The Beatles? Bob Dylan? Maybe the BB's should have played, Dennis could've destroyed his drum set, Carl could've set his guitar on fire/smashed it to pieces, Mike could've done a stage dive into the crowd of hippies....and Al? Bruce? I guess they'd just play on, ala Entwhistle, oblivious to it all.

[Jukka]

I'm one of those who think far too much is made of the BB's non appearance at Monterey. For the most part, my favorite acts of the era were not there. Where were the Kinks? Paul Revere and the Raiders? The Lovin' Spoonful? The Beatles? Bob Dylan?

I wasn't even born in their heyday, but I've understood that normal rules didn't apply to Beatles and Dylan. They were universally loved and respected regardless of what they did, and unlike the BB's (and all the other acts of the time), they didn't have to play the pop game. Beatles took almost a year long break before Sgt. Peppers. Same with Dylan after Blonde on Blonde. And what about universally panned Magical Mystery Tour TV special? It didn't affect their popularity one bit.

This was slightly off-topic, but point is that it's useless to compare "what the Beatles did" with "what the Beach Boys did", as the Beatles were in a league in their own. But yeah, I agree that the signifigance of Monterey no-show has been greatly exeggerated.

But... IF they had been there, they probably would have been included in D. A. Pennebaker's film, which came out in 1968 (a very bad year for the boys). Would THAT have changed anything? What do you think? A slot in a movie that made the festival legendary. I think it could have helped them during their wilderness years.