New Beach Boys 2012 Remasters!

[The Shift]

A blow-up cheerleader might be possible.

We know at least Mike would endorse that!

Erm, who'd wanna touch it after he'd endorsed all over it?

[EgoHanger1966]

A blow-up cheerleader might be possible.

I won't settle for any less than a pom-pom playgirl.

[Zach95]

TJI, from someone who heard the Japanese material (can't reveal source or anything else, alas):

there are some digital "clicks" or clipping sounds on the tracks. ...

Here we go again...Please say it isn't so. 

Maybe Mark needs to be trained on working with digital audio? He just can't get it right.

Wow, what a demeaning statement. I should hope he doesn't pop in here and read that. The man is a professional - and his work on Pet Sounds in stereo alone qualify him as worthy to handle the Beach Boys catalog. While I may not like everything he mixes, I don't think anyone here is in the position to suggest he needs training in any aspect of the field.

This. I'm embarrassed to know that he might see stuff like this on this board.

[rab2591]

TJI, from someone who heard the Japanese material (can't reveal source or anything else, alas):

there are some digital "clicks" or clipping sounds on the tracks. ...

Here we go again...Please say it isn't so. 

Maybe Mark needs to be trained on working with digital audio? He just can't get it right.

Wow, what a demeaning statement. I should hope he doesn't pop in here and read that. The man is a professional - and his work on Pet Sounds in stereo alone qualify him as worthy to handle the Beach Boys catalog. While I may not like everything he mixes, I don't think anyone here is in the position to suggest he needs training in any aspect of the field.

This. I'm embarrassed to know that he might see stuff like this on this board.

He actually has before. And has made it known, through certain channels, that he's not appreciative of comments like this.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

It's the reason he doesn't post here anymore.

[PhilCohen]

It's the reason he doesn't post here anymore.

But, if the rumors of static pops or noises in the new remixes are correct, Capitol Records and/or the remixing or mastering engineers should not be exempt from being criticized.

[Catbirdman]

I was rather hoping that I might get a blow-up Beach Boy with every third purchase.

Oh God, that killed me! What a perfect, hilarious way to put it in perspective!

Yeah, and why can't every Duran Duran release came with a blow-up electric Barbarella too?!?

And where's my jet-pack!!!

[Justin]

It's the reason he doesn't post here anymore.

What a shame!

[GoodToMyBaby]

It's the reason he doesn't post here anymore.

That was the day we learned our board is collectively an asshole.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

It's the reason he doesn't post here anymore.

But, if the rumors of static pops or noises in the new remixes are correct, Capitol Records and/or the remixing or mastering engineers should not be exempt from being criticized.

Well, would you rather criticize them here and not get their input, or would you rather keep your criticisms private and have them post here?  The bell is too late to be unrung, obviously, but I for one very much miss Mark posting here, and I especially miss Alan posting here.

Maybe I shouldn't be sharing this, but, I'm going to.  Those of you who were around right after BWPS was released may remember that I was highly critical of the production.

Well, much to my surprise, I ended up being employed by Alan Boyd a short time later, and part of my job (and to a very limited extent, my social life) involved interacting with Mark.  Well, he knew who I was, and we never quite made friends.  Which is dumb–I mean, I voiced my opinion, but forget that these are real people, and that talking about the quality of one's work negatively can hurt.  I hurt Mark, to some extent, and it compromised what could have been a much better relationship.  This is a guy who has lived and breathed as much Beach Boys as anyone save Alan.

So I dunno.  I like people being free to voice opinions.  But that has consequences.  You know, people actively rooting for bootleggers to get a hold of things is what ultimately drove Alan away, I think.  He got that you want to hear this stuff, but he's continually put his health and sanity on the line to get you as much stuff as humanly possible, so to hear people constantly saying that his work wasn't good enough–I'm sure that felt great.

So criticize away.  The pops and clicks aren't going anywhere, but people worth hearing from are.

[Catbirdman]

.

[drbeachboy]

It's the reason he doesn't post here anymore.

I can't say that I blame him. I'm sure if it was done in a respectful way, he wouldn't have minded answering questions. Why people feel the need to be smart-asses, I'll never understand. I would love for Mark to explain some of his sonic choices. I have been reading that there is no low end on the new stereo releases, along with some clipping. Also, that they sound worse than the 2001 remasters. I don't quite understand why there has been no improvement in 11 years. I'd also like to know if Mark has any say in how his mixes are mastered?

[runnersdialzero]

Mark doesn't master these releases, and that's basically out of his hands. Even a lot of mastering engineers out there known for applying lots of limiting and compression are opposed to doing so, but have to do it because some asshole in a suit who knows and cares more about keeping his wallet fat than music sounding good and how making things sound MP3/radio ready can actually very much work against people buying the music (whether the consumer knows why or not) threaten said mastering engineers' jobs.

Some other asshole knows how to destroy the mixdown and will shut the f*** up and take his paycheck (deservedly much smaller than mine, despite never turning a knob or playing a chord in my entire life), why should we put up with this d00d who has this radical idea that sound should sound good?

[PhilCohen]

...and, if you look back a page or two, I DID say that there are later stages(after Mark Linett mixed the recordings) where faults could be introduced, such as during mastering.

[Awesoman]

After offering "Sunflower" & "Surf's Up" as a twofer, offering them in 2012 on two separate discs(and with no bonus tracks) is simply a poor value.

After making such an effort(in 2011) to give the fans everything that they wanted(or at least everything possible, given the still-existing tapes) in the 5-CD + vinyl + book "Smile Sessions" box set, I'm disappointed that the 2012 "50th Anniversary" archival campaign has been poorly coordinated, and falls far short of what it could have been.

OK, I think you're just having a laugh now.  You can't possibly be this negative ALL the time.

I'd venture to guess that our boy Phil here probably suffers from some sort of obsessive compulsive disorder.  In that perspective, his behavior is understandable.  I've known a few people like him and you simply can't get through to them, no matter how hard you try.  And I find there is definitely something amusing about all the ways he manages to piss all over our glee.  :-)

[Awesoman]

It's the reason he doesn't post here anymore.

Understood.  No one likes getting criticized.  But that's what thick skin is for.  You have to shrug it off and come back to the playground.   

[runnersdialzero]

...and, if you look back a page or two, I DID say that there are later stages(after Mark Linett mixed the recordings) where faults could be introduced, such as during mastering.

Yerp. Pretty sad. My naive little teenage brain really thought we'd have seen the end of this once I started noticing a lot of records sounding a little "off" in the early 2000s.

I guess there's looking forward to putting together my own versions of these albums utilizing older and superior sources as often as I possibly can while compiling all relevant bonus tracks. Shouldn't really be my job to edit albums in my spare time for myself to listen to due to one significant bone-headed thing they do right before pressing the albums to plastic, but hay, the music industry folks have left me no choice. FUK TEH MAN RARARAR i dislike elephants

[drbeachboy]

So, then why do people blame Mark and drive him out of here, when it could very well have nothing to do with him? Are criticisms like from theCOD just ignorant? Is Mark being blamed for decisions out of his control? Are no low end, brightness, echo, and reverb deecisions made by Mark? Even Hoffman disses his work on his site, which doesn't seem too professional.

[Awesoman]

So, then why do people blame Mark and drive him out of here, when it could very well have nothing to do with him? Are criticisms like from theCOD just ignorant? Is Mark being blamed for decisions out of his control? Are no low end, brightness, echo, and reverb deecisions made by Mark? Even Hoffman disses his work on his site, which doesn't seem too professional.

No idea.  I've never really had any problems with his remixing.  I wouldn't be against seeing other professionals taking a stab at these remixes though. 

[PhilCohen]

After offering "Sunflower" & "Surf's Up" as a twofer, offering them in 2012 on two separate discs(and with no bonus tracks) is simply a poor value.

After making such an effort(in 2011) to give the fans everything that they wanted(or at least everything possible, given the still-existing tapes) in the 5-CD + vinyl + book "Smile Sessions" box set, I'm disappointed that the 2012 "50th Anniversary" archival campaign has been poorly coordinated, and falls far short of what it could have been.

OK, I think you're just having a laugh now.  You can't possibly be this negative ALL the time.

I'd venture to guess that our boy Phil here probably suffers from some sort of obsessive compulsive disorder.  In that perspective, his behavior is understandable.  I've known a few people like him and you simply can't get through to them, no matter how hard you try.  And I find there is definitely something amusing about all the ways he manages to piss all over our glee.  :-)

But avid collectors(whether they're collecting records, CD's, comic books, baseball cards, antiques etc.) generally ARE obsessive compulsive. If that description applies to me, then it certainly applies to many of the people on this forum. It is obsessed people who want to spend substantial amounts of time on the internet discussing esoteric trivia relating to a now-elderly music group. The general public(even people who like the music of The Beach Boys) don't particularly care whether the mixes are stereo, mono or Duophonic.

Maybe I should have just stuck with my latest(May 2009) revision to my homemade "Today"/"Summer Days..and Summer Nights" stereo twofer. My ears have long ago adjusted to those("Sea of Tunes" bootleg) mixes of "Do You Wanna Dance", "Girl Don't Tell Me", "Amusement Parks U.S.A." & "Help Me Rhonda", even though they're not musically identical to the mono versions. I also adjusted to the absence of "I'm Bugged at My Old Man" & "Bull Session With The Big Daddy" on my homemade disc.  I'm going to play that disc now. It's getting late here. Goodnight from Florida.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

So, then why do people blame Mark and drive him out of here, when it could very well have nothing to do with him? Are criticisms like from theCOD just ignorant? Is Mark being blamed for decisions out of his control? Are no low end, brightness, echo, and reverb deecisions made by Mark? Even Hoffman disses his work on his site, which doesn't seem too professional.

No idea.  I've never really had any problems with his remixing.  I wouldn't be against seeing other professionals taking a stab at these remixes though. 

An interesting idea.  It would be interesting to see what others would do, wouldn't it?  There's only so much you can do with 8-ish tracks, but nevertheless.  That's why I think they should just release the discrete multis.  Well, I just want to hear them as is, but, you know.

[runnersdialzero]

So, then why do people blame Mark and drive him out of here, when it could very well have nothing to do with him? Are criticisms like from theCOD just ignorant? Is Mark being blamed for decisions out of his control? Are no low end, brightness, echo, and reverb deecisions made by Mark? Even Hoffman disses his work on his site, which doesn't seem too professional.

There are a handful (not a large handful, even) of decisions Mark has made on stuff like The Smile Sessions or other mixes that I thought were odd and/or didn't agree with. As for the question you asked, yes, some of the things you asked about - no low end, brightness, reverb decisions etc. are likely Mark's work (though stuff like "no low end" gets into murkier territory where one can't really tell unless hearing his mixes unmastered).

Overall, though, he's done a lot of good work (the 1997 Pet Sounds stereo mix is indeed absolutely incredible) and I don't get the tiniest impression that he made the decisions he's made with mixes without his heart being in the right place. Several of Brian's mixes weren't the best, after all.

[mammy blue]

I've already preordered Today, Summer Days and Smiley. I'm considering purchasing the earlier albums for the mono mixes, but I have a general question about them. Are there a lot of discernable and interesting differences between the mono and stereo mixes of those early Beach Boys songs? I'm thinking of the Beatles mixes, and how there are various edits, mistakes, and interesting mixing differences that pop out at you when you've heard the alternative mix many times. Is the early BB catalog at all like that when going from stereo to mono?

[monicker]

I certainly didn’t mean for the conversation to take this sort of direction. I was just disheartened to read that one aspect of what Don’s source said about the new remasters, though, granted, i’ve yet to hear what this person is referring to. Nonetheless, i’m ecstatic about these reissues. I also want to say that i’ve been happy with some of Mark’s work in the past. And, yes, digital clicks absolutely can occur in mastering. 

H, you’ve (sort of) relayed that story before. I appreciated it then and appreciate it now. It is definitely something to keep in mind. I’m realizing more and more that, at the end of the day, it’s really, really hard to avoid hurting/offending someone when criticizing their work unless one has a personal relationship with the person, or the criticism comes really, really padded with delicate language. But, yes, it’s a weird line to straddle--offering criticism (while keeping in mind a person’s feelings) or biting your tongue (and maintaining the peace), especially when you care so much about the subject in question. There's obviously a lot of passion brewing on a forum like this, so it's easy for emotions to escalate. I don’t think there’s real value in criticizing stuff that comes down to subjectivity and tastes (reverb, EQ, stereo image, etc.) because there’s no right or wrong way to get that stuff, obviously. There will never be a case where everyone is happy with all the decisions made. It’s the basic, more “technical” things where i think issues are bound to arise if certain considerations aren’t met, and where i do think there is merit and usefulness in offering criticism. Of course, no one should be a smart ass or mean-spirited about it. If anything i've written in the past has been taken as malicious, please know that that is never, ever my intent or desire. And if i had any part whatsoever, no matter how small, in driving anyone away from the board, i feel terrible about that and i offer all of you my sincerest apology. 

[Runaways]

I'm curious if anyone has noticed Mark's stamp on the new stereo mixes?  Like on TSS Heroes and Villains how the background vocals come in louder than the original mix, or how Mike's bass part on the "children were raised" was also brought higher in the mix?  Should be noted that I mostly enjoy those two additions.  Were those even a Linett thing?