The Peter Ames Carlin Thread

[MBE]

I have to play it again but I think Andrew may be right here. I will try to put it on tomorrow and report bacl.

[Dave in KC]

On the topic of who wrote the songs. While listening to Knebworth last night Carl says we all have to thank Brian for writing all these beautiful and wonderful songs, or words to that effect. I'm sure every time Mike was standing there listening to that it was eating at him. Maybe I'm wrong. Don't think so.

[Bob Hanes]

Wasn't there a band from Glendora (east of Asuza) called The Raindrops and aren't they in the film ? Been a loooooong time since I've seen it, but...

<< you're thinkin of the band that did the opening song.  Their name escapes me too.  Great garage band (IMHO) from as you point out, Glendora.
I'm sure most of us have the same poor quality dub so digging it out is not high priority, but I think I'll do so to nudge my memory. In the words of Randy Newman, "I could be wrong now, but I don't think so!" 
It was the combination of hearing the sound on this film and having known Robin Hood and Bruce Griffin for decades, and hearing them say over and over that a huge amount of the music was written pre-BBs, finally made me accept that point of view or reality. I had always been at least somewhat unwilling to accept that reality until the "occasional music sounded so much like All Summer Long, and I swear to God, Surf Jam appears in the film in nearly the exact version that is on Surfin USA.
As to the Capitol connection.  The label is totally uncredited and unthanked anywhere in the credits, and the version of Surfin' Safari that is shown is the Hite Morgan version not the full on Venet production at Capitol. (I'm not saying the film was dubbed or anything) The film maker (though Dick Clark claims ownership by possession of the original film) still lives on the Great Pacific Hwy. in SF, I believe!  We could ask him I guess, but I doubt he'd talk to just anyone like me.   

[Andrew G. Doe]

the version of Surfin' Safari that is shown is the Hite Morgan version not the full on Venet production at Capitol. 

Um, make that "the full on (Murry) Wilson production at Western", coach. 

[Jon Stebbins]

Actually the version of Surfin' Safari in One Man's Challenge is neither the Hite Morgan version nor the Capitol version...but something in between.

[Bob Hanes]

pick, pick, pick!
You're both right, but then again so are so many others.
I remembered it as being closer to the "original" with the "lesser", production values. 
Did you hear Surf Jam yet?

[MBE]

I am watching in a few min. I tend to think it was after the Capitol signing because of the outfits and Dave being present. The date is in the Badman book. I think it sounds basic because The Beach Boys were not playing even a year together.

[MBE]

Ok I watched the film and a little bit about it.
Badman says One Man's Challenge was filmed 7-28-62. I agree with that by looking at them and knowing their chronology. As far as the music, first I will list what the credits say. Music by the Beach Boys and the Raindrops. Title song "the Hitchhiker" by the Genteels. So here is what I found the Genteels were a real group on Capitol who released a single of that song. Roger Christian narrates the film. Some of the music is played live or synched by a very young band that must be the Raindrops. Some of the film music sounds very pre rock nothing like Brian's stuff. Some of it has a generic "surf" instrumental sound. These seem to match the music played by the Raindrops when they are shown on screen. One track sounds a little like "What'd I Say". Another has vague similarities to Surf Jam but nothing that I would notice if I wasn't looking for it. Nothing sounds like All Summer Long to me. Nothing sticks out as being Brian Wilson or the Beach Boys. I am 95 percent convinced that nothing other then Surfin' Safari was recorded by the Beach Boys or Brian for the film. There is certainly a chance that they did but Brian did not carry much clout yet so I doubt he would have been asked to score a film. I could be wrong but I hope this can at least be seen as an educated guess.

[Jon Stebbins]

MBE's right. What ended up being the hit version of Surfin' Safari was recorded in April '62 before the band was signed. They signed their initial agreement with Capitol in May. The One Man's Challenge footage is from late July '62. It was filmed prior to a BB's gig at the Azusa Teen Club, where they played regularly that summer. The question is where does the audio generate from. David Marks recalls them setting up and playing live for the cameras. The track sounds very live to me. The footage looks staged. The film makers may have taken the audio from one take and then had the guys do a more camera friendly visual take. that's my guess. I'd bet that it was all done the same day...and what you hear in the film is exactly like the BB's sounded in summer '62. Notice the guitars are MUCH bigger than on any World Pacific stuff. The reason is they switched to Fender equipment just as Dave entered the group in late February. Al points out himself in the new DM book that he wanted no part of the electric rock sound and that was all developed by Carl and David. He also admits that it subsequently opened a whole new world for Brian.

Personally I don't think any of the other music in OMC has anything to do with the BB's. I sat and watched the film with David recently and he felt the same.

[Andrew G. Doe]

MBE's right. What ended up being the hit version of Surfin' Safari was recorded in April '62 before the band was signed. They signed their initial agreement with Capitol in May.

... on the strength of the 5-song demo recorded at Western on April 19th, which comprised "SS", plus "409", "Judy", "The Lonely Sea" & "Their Hearts Were Full of Spring".

[MBE]

I wonder why Judy hasn't surfaced

[Bob Hanes]

I'll ask!

[MBE]

Do you mean the woman? I was actually thinking about the second recording of it from the Surfin Safari demo. Both would be cool to learn about

[Bob Hanes]

"Bob, I rode out to San Bernadino and back with Brian and Judy for a gig at the American Legion. She seemed pretty quiet and unassuming. I was out front watching and I don't remember connecting up with her during the show at all.  She disappeared, presumably back stage; one might predict  that faithfulness and modesty (like the young Marilyn) were traits that Brian appreciated in a woman."
  -a friend of a friend, of ours-  

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I wonder where she is now, and if she has ever commented on Brian, or if they ever ran into each other again...

[buddhahat]

Finally read Catch A Wave, and just wanted to say how much I enjoyed it. Peter Ames Carlin has a poetic way of describing Wilson's music that communicates its beauty better than any one else I have read. I particularly enjoyed his assessment of the songs that focus on nature in the period after Smile (Country Air, Little Bird etc.) and his appreciation for Busy Doin' Nothin' was a real treat to read as this is one of my favourite Brian Wilson tunes.

I've read a reasonable amount on the BB although not all the biographies. I started the Stephen Gaines one but the sensationalist tone put me off. I enjoyed CAW as it didn't seek to demonise any particular party, and PAC seems to be as objective as he can be when describing BW himself. Therefore, I would highly recommend this to anyone unsure of which biography to choose.

[The Shift]

Agreed Bubba -  I reckon it's the best since Leaf's effort some time back, and far more objective. The longer I sit back and think about it, the more I think PAC's is the best of the biograhies to date.

[Dave in KC]

Absolutely, no doubt. Captivating. Thanks again Peter.

[Zander]

Hi Peter,

Love the book just read it for the second time. Easily the best book on Brian and the Boys yet!

Just one question, (without having the book to hand) when discussing the open message to Brian on the "Love You" album sleeve with thanks from the rest of the group, you gave me the impression that the message had a sarcastic undertone to it (To Brian who we love with all our hearts, thank you for sharing your music etc etc).

I always thought this message was sincere and an open thank you. What makes you think that the boys were being sardonic / mocking? Would Dennis & Carl have really though that?

Just wondering...

Zander

[Peter Ames Carlin]

Hi Zander, and everyone: Thanks again for all your nice comments, it really does mean a lot to me.

Regarding the 'Love You' dedication thing. I wasn't trying to imply that there was anything sarcastic or purposefully mocking about it. Just that the tone (like the syntax) was twisted and strange, and not just because there's something off about having the other guys "dedicate" the record to BW, since he wrote and produced all of it, and performed virtually all of the instrumental and vocal parts himself. And they weren't neccesarily delighted with the album in particular, or even all that convinced that having BW back in the fold (let alone at the helm) was that great an idea. So my feeling was that some of that ambivalence leaked out into that dedication, which to my eyes seems way more patronizing and condescending than they consciously intended for it to sound.

So no purposeful sarcasm. Just the usual weirdness and unhappiness. Another fun day in the park for the boys.

[Glenn Greenberg]

Hi Peter!

The one thing I really don't get is, if the Beach Boys weren't delighted with the Love You album, why did they put it out as is?  Couldn't they have gone in and reworked it to their liking?  I've heard the demo tape of "Airplane," with Mike Love professing his affection for it and insisting that he get to sing it, so is it possible it was a case of them liking the material and not the execution?  If so, they could have reworked the recordings, couldn't they?

As for them not necessarily liking the idea of Brian being back in the fold, or at the helm--what were their other options at that point?  With Bruce, Blondie and Ricky gone, and no new material in the pipeline, where were they headed as a band?

[Daniel S.]

My copy finally arrived from Amazon. I ordered it back in April.

Can't wait to start reading it. 

[Fun Is In]

Hi Peter, 

In the book you mention Carl's troubles with the draft and CO status, which has been widely (if not deeply) written about.  Did you learn anything about the other BBs' experiences with selective service? A great many American men born in the 1940s got drafted. How did the others happen not to get put in uniform? 

I can easily imagine that Brian's hearing loss kept him out, but what of the rest?

TIA

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm (obviously) not Peter, but this is my understanding, open to correction:

Brian - deaf in one ear
Carl - CO status
Dennis - either got caught peeing in someone else's jar, had flat feet or told the Draft board he was gay (I've heard all three, plus being married to Carole, he technically had a son)
Mike - married with children
Alan - married (but then so was Carl - 'fess up time, I have no idea... too short, maybe ?)
Bruce - dependent parent (widowed mother)

[Dave in KC]

Just wanted to say thanks again Peter for all your hard work on the book which was by far the beat read of 2006 for me.