What if...BW88 as a live special in '13?

[onkster]

I really like the songs on BW88. As many have already mentioned, the production sounds a bit dated these days, as much synth/mechanized gizmos were used...

Wouldn't it be nice if BW and his talented band could work up a live rendition of that album, and do it in a Burbank studio for HBO or something similar, just so we could have a more natural version of that great album? His band could make the arrangements feels less techno, and BW's vocals would likely be much better now.

What say y'all?

[Wirestone]

I really like the songs on BW88. As many have already mentioned, the production sounds a bit dated these days, as much synth/mechanized gizmos were used...

Wouldn't it be nice if BW and his talented band could work up a live rendition of that album, and do it in a Burbank studio for HBO or something similar, just so we could have a more natural version of that great album? His band could make the arrangements feels less techno, and BW's vocals would likely be much better now.

What say y'all?

Won't happen, but it would be fun. And they should do "Let's Go to Heaven in My Car," "Too Much Sugar," "Being With the One You Love" and "He Couldn't Get His Poor Old Body to Move" as bonuses.

[The Shift]

The attraction of BW88 Live wouldn't draw me in other than the prospect of Rio Grande played live.

Can't believe they've not played that yet… maybe they're holding it back?

[Wirestone]

The attraction of BW88 Live wouldn't draw me in other than the prospect of Rio Grande played live.

Can't believe they've not played that yet… maybe they're holding it back?

Probably would be a challenging piece to pull off -- and who knows if Brian wants to do it?

[Dave in KC]

I'm just trying to figure how somebody thinks BW vocals today are better than they were in '88!

[Amy B.]

Remember "Let It Be...Naked"? How about BW 88 Naked?  If the songs could be stripped away to their melodies and leads, it would become quite clear how good they are. Not sure if that would work for BW, though. He's all about the harmonies and layering.

[Wirestone]

I'm just trying to figure how somebody thinks BW vocals today are better than they were in '88!

Um ... because they clearly are? Certainly on record, BWRG and ITKOD are light years ahead of any vocals he's put on tape since the early 70s.

[runnersdialzero]

Remember "Let It Be...Naked"? How about BW 88 Naked?  If the songs could be stripped away to their melodies and leads, it would become quite clear how good they are. Not sure if that would work for BW, though. He's all about the harmonies and layering.

BW88 is less about layers and more about overabundance of shitty 80s synths and production techniques. This sort of sound has its place, but definitely not on a Brian Wilson album. Unfortunately, I don't even think a dryer mix would work, as we're still working with too many synths - the only real thing to do would be to take the original vocals, some of the original tracks, and record new tracks alongside them, perhaps ones that play similar parts but aren't done on... y'know, shitty 80s synths. imo. Although "Love And Mercy" is only great when it's just Brian, a piano, and just a dash of backing vocals.

People can go on and on about the crimes Landy committed, but for my money, his insistence upon Brian keeping up with the times sonically may be worse than all the others put together.

... okay, maybe not, but it's dangerously close.

[runnersdialzero]

I'm just trying to figure how somebody thinks BW vocals today are better than they were in '88!

Um ... because they clearly are? Certainly on record, BWRG and ITKOD are light years ahead of any vocals he's put on tape since the early 70s.

He sounds better on certain spots of TLOS/BWRG (although he doesn't sound as good on ITKOD imo), but he was still pretty good on the 88 record behind the gallons of chamber reverb. However, the difference between then and now is consistency.

[amonomous]

I don't know about a one-off special, might put Brian in shock mode. I'd say go for a small round of shows performed "BW presents Pet Sounds"-style in a decent size but relatively intimate set of venues (or even at the same one) and film them/record them for DVD/CD release of the best performance.

[Peter Reum]

I am anticipating a new BW studio solo album next year...but I would enjoy hearing Rio Grande live

[Wirestone]

I'm just trying to figure how somebody thinks BW vocals today are better than they were in '88!

Um ... because they clearly are? Certainly on record, BWRG and ITKOD are light years ahead of any vocals he's put on tape since the early 70s.

He sounds better on certain spots of TLOS/BWRG (although he doesn't sound as good on ITKOD imo), but he was still pretty good on the 88 record behind the gallons of chamber reverb. However, the difference between then and now is consistency.

Don't get me wrong. He certainly had a more powerful voice back then, and a greater range, and a usable falsetto. All amazing things. But his phrasing on several of those 88 tracks sounds a little ... odd. And a bit shouty.

I am anticipating a new BW studio solo album next year...but I would enjoy hearing Rio Grande live

So soon after the new BB record? What makes you think so?

[Alex]

Remember "Let It Be...Naked"? How about BW 88 Naked?  If the songs could be stripped away to their melodies and leads, it would become quite clear how good they are. Not sure if that would work for BW, though. He's all about the harmonies and layering.

BW88 is less about layers and more about overabundance of sh*tty 80s synths and production techniques. This sort of sound has its place, but definitely not on a Brian Wilson album. Unfortunately, I don't even think a dryer mix would work, as we're still working with too many synths - the only real thing to do would be to take the original vocals, some of the original tracks, and record new tracks alongside them, perhaps ones that play similar parts but aren't done on... y'know, sh*tty 80s synths. imo. Although "Love And Mercy" is only great when it's just Brian, a piano, and just a dash of backing vocals.

People can go on and on about the crimes Landy committed, but for my money, his insistence upon Brian keeping up with the times sonically may be worse than all the others put together.

... okay, maybe not, but it's dangerously close.

Still sounds better than Summer in Paradise!

[Rocky Raccoon]

I would like to see him re-record some of the songs because production is so dated.  The 2008 version of Love and Mercy is probably my favorite, much better than the original.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm just trying to figure how somebody thinks BW vocals today are better than they were in '88!

Um ... because they clearly are? Certainly on record, BWRG and ITKOD are light years ahead of any vocals he's put on tape since the early 70s.

*koff* Comped. *koff*

[Lowbacca]

I'm just trying to figure how somebody thinks BW vocals today are better than they were in '88!

Um ... because they clearly are? Certainly on record, BWRG and ITKOD are light years ahead of any vocals he's put on tape since the early 70s.

*koff* Comped. *koff*

Even so.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I'm just trying to figure how somebody thinks BW vocals today are better than they were in '88!

Um ... because they clearly are? Certainly on record, BWRG and ITKOD are light years ahead of any vocals he's put on tape since the early 70s.

*koff* Comped. *koff*

And mildly autotuned I would suspect.

[Wirestone]

I'm just trying to figure how somebody thinks BW vocals today are better than they were in '88!

Um ... because they clearly are? Certainly on record, BWRG and ITKOD are light years ahead of any vocals he's put on tape since the early 70s.

*koff* Comped. *koff*

I assume they had the ability to edit various vocal takes together in 1988 as well, Andrew. Actually, I'm fairly certain they had that ability in the 1960s, too. Yet having that in your production arsenal does not make for automatically euphonious vocals.

[Sam_BFC]

Wasn't the vocal intro to You Still Believe In Me a composite of a number of takes?

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I'm just trying to figure how somebody thinks BW vocals today are better than they were in '88!

Um ... because they clearly are? Certainly on record, BWRG and ITKOD are light years ahead of any vocals he's put on tape since the early 70s.

*koff* Comped. *koff*

I assume they had the ability to edit various vocal takes together in 1988 as well, Andrew. Actually, I'm fairly certain they had that ability in the 1960s, too. Yet having that in your production arsenal does not make for automatically euphonious vocals.

Unlikely. The backing track would be recorded "tape rolling", and then the master snipped off the reel, or mixed down to another tape. The vocals would then be recorded. For each take the tape would be rewound, only the master vocal takes surviving. So, no. This would not be possible in the 60's. And seeing as they were still recording to tape for BW88, unlikely here as well. What would be standard practice by the 80's though, is "drop ins". This way, Brian could have taken the vocals line by line.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Wasn't the vocal intro to You Still Believe In Me a composite of a number of takes?

What vocal intro?

The plucked piano intro was recorded as all BB backing tracks were recorded, take after take till the master was achieved. The hummed vocals, Brian and Carl I believe, were then overdubbed. No comping on either the tracking or vox.

The closest I can come to for what you mean by comping, is the fluffed entry on "Do You Wanna Dance", where Brian says "Don't worry, we'll edit it out". Only possible because of the multiple repeats in the fade.

Although, thinking about it, acapella tracks such as "And Your Dream Come True" were recorded in sections, but this was not really comping. It was recorded in bits because it was easier for them to do it that way. Again, each section was sung until a satisfactory take was achieved. The decision to say "this is the take" was taken at the recording stage, not the editing stage, so not really comping as you mean it.

[AndrewHickey]

Unlikely. The backing track would be recorded "tape rolling", and then the master snipped off the reel, or mixed down to another tape. The vocals would then be recorded. For each take the tape would be rewound, only the master vocal takes surviving. So, no. This would not be possible in the 60's. And seeing as they were still recording to tape for BW88, unlikely here as well. What would be standard practice by the 80's though, is "drop ins". This way, Brian could have taken the vocals line by line.

I know that in 1980 when John Lennon was recording Double Fantasy, the vocals were comped. I read an interview with Jack Douglas around the time the John Lennon Anthology box came out, where he said that Lennon would do four or five takes, get Douglas to put together a comp take, and then double-track the comp so it would have a more continuous feel. (I distinctly remember this because it was the first time I heard the term 'comp' used).

It seems plausible that if Lennon was doing this in 1980, Brian could have been in 1988.

[Wirestone]

I'm actually not trying to start a big debate about anything. (Although I do think it's peculiar that Andrew -- who was one of the biggest BWRG cheerleaders around -- would now so summarily dismiss its vocals.)

My point is simply that studio trickery connected to vocals goes back a long ways. People have been editing multiple vocal takes together for a long time, and pitch-shifting them too. Yes, Pro Tools makes such things simpler. But the mere fact that they're done doesn't invalidate an entire album's worth of vocal performances.

Brian just sounds stiff on BW88. Stiff and shouty. Pretty much the only way to rectify that would have been to use demo vocal takes, which the BW88 deluxe edition shows us were somewhat calmer sounding. On his last three or four albums, Brian has developed a more natural vocal approach. Yes, it's definitely helped by technology. But it still sounds better (at least to me!) than it used to. And he sounds pretty much the same in the live shows (if generally shakier pitch-wise).

[Iron Horse-Apples]

That's cool, Not trying to debate either. Just pointing out that the Beach Boys did no vocal comping in the 60's.

[Jim V.]

I'm actually not trying to start a big debate about anything. (Although I do think it's peculiar that Andrew -- who was one of the biggest BWRG cheerleaders around -- would now so summarily dismiss its vocals.)

My point is simply that studio trickery connected to vocals goes back a long ways. People have been editing multiple vocal takes together for a long time, and pitch-shifting them too. Yes, Pro Tools makes such things simpler. But the mere fact that they're done doesn't invalidate an entire album's worth of vocal performances.

Brian just sounds stiff on BW88. Stiff and shouty. Pretty much the only way to rectify that would have been to use demo vocal takes, which the BW88 deluxe edition shows us were somewhat calmer sounding. On his last three or four albums, Brian has developed a more natural vocal approach. Yes, it's definitely helped by technology. But it still sounds better (at least to me!) than it used to. And he sounds pretty much the same in the live shows (if generally shakier pitch-wise).

Yeah, Andrew's post somewhat confounds me, as I do remember him being a major supporter of BWRG.

But anyways, I gotta say that I think Brian really sounds better on the "rockers" or more uptempo material on Brian Wilson. But for example, on the demo of "Melt Away" I think he sounds way too tentative and shouty. I think that he sounds really nice on stuff like "Meet Me in My Dreams Tonight" and "Let it Shine" and was much more vocally dexterous than he is now.

However, I think he has done some gorgeous vocals recently like on the new "Do It Again." And I think he really sounds wonderful on the live version of "Please Let Me Wonder" on Live at the Roxy.

I think the main thing he is really great at now is doing a sensitive ballad-type vocal, and I hope that is the role he is most used in on the new album. And I think they should leave the rockers, for the most part to Al, and occasionally Mike.