SMiLE Boots - How did they evolve, and how many are there?

[Cabinessenceking]

Yes, the elements are one of SMiLE's biggest mysteries.

I have never heard what Brian intended for Earth. I've heard fans argue that Vega-Tables is earth, that DYLW was supposed to bridge Americana and the Elements together and that Look was supposed to bridge Innocence with Elements, as a sort of earth instrumental. None of these ideas sounds definitive (because they almost certainly aren't). In every SMiLE related work I've ever read, there's always some speculation on what Air and Water were supposed to be, but Earth is always completely glossed over.

I've read that Brian's original intentions for Air were to be a "flighty" piano solo. The piano exit of Wind Chimes (which was omitted in TSS version) seems to fit that description, and with fans speculating that Wind Chimes itself was the air track, it kinda makes sense. You could also say Holidays is the air track (at least the second part anyway) but nothing really backs that up. Then Dada has recently been proposed as the Air track. It has woodwinds, which are an "airy" instrument, and its alternate title (Second Day) is an obscure reference to air just as "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" is an obscure reference to fire.

I remember reading in the Catch a Wave biography that Brian's original idea for Water was to record different bodies of water like rivers flowing and waves breaking and edit it together into a type of track, or at the very least use it for inspiration. I've always thought Dada was water, and it seems to be the defacto water track in most fan mixes. But, assuming the "In Blue Hawaii" lyrics were written at the time, was it actually supposed to be part of Americana? Maybe it was the bride between those two suites? Then there's Cool, cool water, a song that while not recorded during the SMiLE sessions, it has its roots there. It's an entire song about water, so that makes sense as the water track. The only problem is it isn't an instrumental, but then neither are Vega-Tables and Wind Chimes and they're usually used as placeholders for Earth and Air so who knows.

Fire is Mrs. O'Leary's Cow. No argument there. But what I'm curious about is, if it turns out NONE of my suggestions were really elements, did Brian abandon the entire concept of an Element Suite after he got scared of Fire? Or was he just going to leave fire out of it? I know he rewrote fire as Fall Breaks for Smiley Smile, but if he was willing to do that why was no work done on any other element?

I really wish somebody, Brian or Van Dyke preferably, would just come forward and say "Yes, Dada was a working title that would've been changed to Second Day and stood as Air, the first element, which would lead into a Diamond Head type instrumental for Water, which would lead into Fire, then go into Look which would transition into the Innocence Suite" or something. Even just say "Fire was the only element worked on. We could never decide what to do for the others." I just want some kind of answer to this

The Elements thing has been getting to me lately too. Love to Say Dada/In Blue Hawaii is interesting - it works as Water but as well as a sort of coda for the album (going through 3 movements and ending with an "Our Prayer"-like vocal bit), and I just think the title "In Blue Hawaii" is a simple Elvis reference, just like the Plymouth Rock roll over lyric is a riff on a line from Cole Porter's "Anything Goes".
Air is strange, recently I heard this thing on YouTube (I cannot find any longer) where Mrs. O'Leary's Cow was Fire, Dada was Water, and this more ambient track was Air, and the video did not include Earth and I have not been able to track down this cool Air track used, but it sounded pretty authentic.
Oh yeah and "Look" always irked me as its place among all SMiLE songs seems weak, and how it would be as a bridging track or a piece of something else feels so up in the air (hah!). It doesn't feel totally right between Wonderful and CIFotM on TSS, because the whole "Cycle of Life" suite has a metaphorical growth going on in it, which is musically represented by the trumpet in Wonderful, Child Is..., and Surf's Up. In comparison to the other tracks which are so much more full (at least Wonderful and SU) it just seems like a bridge of something, almost like another "Three Blind Mice" situation (though I don't know much about the history of that track).

If Smile really had been compiled back then, I think we can assume Look would be the first to be axed due to time constraints. That and perhaps Holidays, I cannot see how any other track would go before them. Not counting the 'snippet songs'. Also I'm assuming Dada would be recorded (although as we all know this was far from certain!)

[ash]

Look and Holidays would make much more sense if we had any idea what the lead vocals / lyrics would have been. Brian can be heard very briefly singing a small bit of Holidays on the Smile Sessions box but in common with almost every track, no lead was either recorded or appears to have a surviving tape. If the band had not returned to the Smile tapes post Smiley the same would be true for pretty much the entire album bar Heroes and Vegetables (which were largely in unfathomable pieces until the release of Smiley Smile) and Wonderful and Wind Chimes.
The annoying thing to me is that it would probably only have taken a couple of days at most to record the lead vocals for Look,Holidays,Worms,Child Is Father etc. but here we are nearly 50 years later, the melodies are forgotten and the lyrics appear to have been lost.
The only thing we can be pretty certain about is that they would have been awesome !

[Mahalo]

The artwork by Frank Holmes, dated 1996 in TSS box set, reveals that perhaps the BWPS lyrics to Holidays is vintage. Vintage 1996 at least!

[GhostyTMRS]

I got my first SMiLE boot sometime around 1986. It was a cassette dub of some SMiLE tracks put out by somebody somewhere, and I remember it had a lone harpsichord playing "Heroes and Villains" interspersed between EVERY SINGLE TRACK....which made it sound like Norman Bates could've compiled it. It was third or fourth generation and hissed like a MF'er. It was a 60 minute cassette and most of the second side was taken up with "Good Vibrations" sessions. I drew my own cover, made dubs for my friends and spread the word.

[The Shift]

Fire is Mrs. O'Leary's Cow. No argument there. But what I'm curious about is, if it turns out NONE of my suggestions were really elements, did Brian abandon the entire concept of an Element Suite after he got scared of Fire? Or was he just going to leave fire out of it? I know he rewrote fire as Fall Breaks for Smiley Smile, but if he was willing to do that why was no work done on any other element?

Must also bear in mind that at some stage Brian commented that Fire could also be a candle (but please don't ask me for the source!) which I've taken to mean he'd reject the cacophonous Mrs Oleary's Cow in favour of something calm and piano-like.

[sandmountainslim]

Forgive the bump of the old thread but this HAS to be the most interesting topic I have read in ages!

Fascinating that the SMiLE that we are all familiar with today is a creation of all those years of bootlegs trying to improve on one another.    The idea that Darien used the S.O.T boot as his guide when putting BWPS together had never occured to me. 

I know it destroyed the trade of boots but how did the 2011 release affect Fan Mixes?  Have there been more mixes made available since the release than in the immediate years prior to the release or did it put a damper on fan mixes as well?   

[Tricycle Rider]

The idea that Darien used the S.O.T boot as his guide when putting BWPS together had never occured to me.

I think Darian got the idea for Barnyard from a fan mix posted on "The SMiLE Shop" forums in the late 90's.

It didn't work then, and it doesn't work now. That it found it's way onto BWPS and then The SMiLE Sessions, is a shame.

[sandmountainslim]

The idea that Darien used the S.O.T boot as his guide when putting BWPS together had never occured to me.

Darian actually got the idea for Barnyard from a fan mix posted on "The SMiLE Shop" forums in the late 90's!

It didn't work then, and it doesn't work now. That it found it's way onto BWPS and then The SMiLE Sessions, is a shame.

Wow!  I didn't know that either.     There are a couple of little bits on The Smile Sessions first disc that are a little jarring to me with the transition after Barnyard being the worse...I actually hear a "thump" or a "crack".       I actually prefer the mix by Soniclovenoize (the 67 mix) because it seems to "flow" better than the official release....if that makes any sense.

[Mikie]

Smile fan mixes pretty much dropped off the table after TSS was released. There were quite a bit before and I think I've only seen a couple after. And one of those utilized some of the TSS stuff!

[Andrew G. Doe]

Must also bear in mind that at some stage Brian commented that Fire could also be a candle (but please don't ask me for the source!)...

Good Bye Surfing, Hello God ! - Jules Siegel, 1967. THE basic Smile text. He was there.

[sandmountainslim]

Smile fan mixes pretty much dropped off the table after TSS was released. There were quite a bit before and I think I've only seen a couple after. And one of those utilized some of the TSS stuff!

Ya know that is sad in a way    I guess that was an expected drawback of TSS being released.  Everything SMiLE related is anti-climactic now.     Would love to see more new versions of the album.

[rab2591]

Smile fan mixes pretty much dropped off the table after TSS was released. There were quite a bit before and I think I've only seen a couple after. And one of those utilized some of the TSS stuff!

Ya know that is sad in a way    I guess that was an expected drawback of TSS being released.  Everything SMiLE related is anti-climactic now.     Would love to see more new versions of the album.

Which is odd, because Linett (or Boyd, can't remember) said before the Smile Sessions release that "now fans will be able to roll their own Smile mixes" or something like that. I think he was expecting a lot of fan-made Smile mixes to hit the internet after the release.

[sandmountainslim]

Smile fan mixes pretty much dropped off the table after TSS was released. There were quite a bit before and I think I've only seen a couple after. And one of those utilized some of the TSS stuff!

Ya know that is sad in a way    I guess that was an expected drawback of TSS being released.  Everything SMiLE related is anti-climactic now.     Would love to see more new versions of the album.

Which is odd, because Linett (or Boyd, can't remember) said before the Smile Sessions release that "now fans will be able to roll their own Smile mixes" or something like that. I think he was expecting a lot of fan-made Smile mixes to hit the internet after the release.

That was the logical assumption!    If I was more technically savvy I would make my own.....of course it would just be a combination of Mok's version and Soniclovenoize's version    maybe we will see more in the future.

[hongkongcrowe]

Love this topic.  I remember hearing SMiLE for the first time and being blown away.  The first version I heard was the Vigotone release and then I enjoyed the conversation snippets from Heroes and Vibrations.  Over the years, I continued to collect different mixes.  I've always been a fan of Mok's SMiLE, the AlternateBrianWilsonPresentsSMiLE, JMZ SMiLE and the Odeon SMiLE.  I too thought the Beach Boys missed an opportunity when they released TSS.  As fan mixes kept the album alive through the years, I thought that they should have set up a website where fans could upload mixes or something like that. 

[Niko]

As fan mixes kept the album alive through the years, I thought that they should have set up a website where fans could upload mixes or something like that. 

This would be amazing if done correctly...to be able to stream everyone else's mix of Smile? Jeez

[sandmountainslim]

Ok,  How about this question? 

Of ALL the boots of SMiLE and the first disc of The SMiLE Sessions which is your favorite?    Do you think the SMiLE Sessions reconstruction is the End All or is there another mix which you believe is done better?

[Nile]

Ok,  How about this question? 

Of ALL the boots of SMiLE and the first disc of The SMiLE Sessions which is your favorite?    Do you think the SMiLE Sessions reconstruction is the End All or is there another mix which you believe is done better?

Uffff
I believe that TSS isn´t best way to go..nor is BWPS from which it derived.. I love JMZ mix..so well done, not too long in terms of minutes..would love to see him to try outdo his own mix with new sources now available (TSS box set)!
Myself I would like to do my own mix ..and I´m trying for the last year and a half.. So much material to work with, but trying to keep it it under 33 minutes!
Ufff

[Andrew G. Doe]

My preferred Smile boots are the 2nd ever CD one in 1989 and volumes 16 & 17 of the SOT series. Heroes & Vibrations is up there too.

[Niko]

There are so many out there, but I'd pick the 3971 mix as my favorite. It is edited perfectly and combines all the missing parts featured in BWPS with the newer stuff. 1971 Surf's Up + Violin/Trumpet reprise? Yes please 

But, if I were one of the old guard and had picked up a Smile boot 20 years ago, I'm sure my answer would be different, since 3971 is more just a specific mix than an actual bootleg.

[Grayhands]

There are so many out there, but I'd pick the 3971 mix as my favorite. It is edited perfectly and combines all the missing parts featured in BWPS with the newer stuff. 1971 Surf's Up + Violin/Trumpet reprise? Yes please 

But, if I were one of the old guard and had picked up a Smile boot 20 years ago, I'm sure my answer would be different, since 3971 is more just a specific mix than an actual bootleg.

Just listened to the 3971 mix and it is my favorite now as well, thanks!

[Andrew G. Doe]

There are so many out there, but I'd pick the 3971 mix as my favorite. It is edited perfectly and combines all the missing parts featured in BWPS with the newer stuff. 1971 Surf's Up + Violin/Trumpet reprise? Yes please  

But, if I were one of the old guard and had picked up a Smile boot 20 years ago, I'm sure my answer would be different, since 3971 is more just a specific mix than an actual bootleg.

However good it might be, it's not the real deal, just one person's idea of how they feel it should go. The conceit that any given fan knows better than Brian Wilson, even these days, is breathtaking in its sheer arrogance.

[sandmountainslim]

Ok,  How about this question? 

Of ALL the boots of SMiLE and the first disc of The SMiLE Sessions which is your favorite?    Do you think the SMiLE Sessions reconstruction is the End All or is there another mix which you believe is done better?

Uffff
I believe that TSS isn´t best way to go..nor is BWPS from which it derived.. I love JMZ mix..so well done, not too long in terms of minutes..would love to see him to try outdo his own mix with new sources now available (TSS box set)!
Myself I would like to do my own mix ..and I´m trying for the last year and a half.. So much material to work with, but trying to keep it it under 33 minutes!
Ufff

The JMZ mix is good and I love Seltaeb's mini mix of SMiLE.   Unlike most I cannot stand the Alternate Brian Wilson Presents mix.      I believe SMiLE Sessions disc one would be near perfect if Good Vibrations and Surf's Up were switched in the tracklist and You're Welcome was added as the next to last song.

[Micha]

So much material to work with, but trying to keep it it under 33 minutes!

Why that? 45 minutes would fit easily on an LP, and Pet Sounds is about 36 minutes.

The conceit that any given fan knows better than Brian Wilson, even these days, is breathtaking in its sheer arrogance.

Only if the given fan says this is the version everybody should hear. I like my own versions better than the TSS order, but that doesn't mean to me that mine is the best.

If Smile really had been compiled back then, I think we can assume Look would be the first to be axed due to time constraints. That and perhaps Holidays, I cannot see how any other track would go before them.

I Wanna Be Around / Friday Night would be my first candidate. Actually, on my last own version I did leave it off!

[Andrew G. Doe]

The conceit that any given fan knows better than Brian Wilson, even these days, is breathtaking in its sheer arrogance.

Only if the given fan says this is the version everybody should hear. I like my own versions better than the TSS order, but that doesn't mean to me that mine is the best.

I've heard fans say exactly that, hence my comment.

[Sheriff John Stone]

However good it might be, it's not the real deal, just one person's idea of how they feel it should go. The conceit that any given fan knows better than Brian Wilson, even these days, is breathtaking in its sheer arrogance.

Which is Reason #2 why I despise BWPS (Reason #1 being trying to make a quick buck from the original 1966 SMiLE).

IMO, repeat IMO, I don't care if Brian Wilson - the Brian Wilson of 2004, which is crucial in the story - was sitting/lying on a couch and nodding approvingly (or dissenting) to Darian, BWPS was the byproduct of Darian Sahanaja, with the sequencing, edits, and production. To me, and this is not a knock at Darian, BWPS is the ultimate fan mix. Darian was just doing a job he was paid to do, and he did it quite well.