Smile (sorry...): How stereo can it be?

[Bleachboy]

With the content of TSS, and the large number of bootlegs covering the sessions (knowing that we already have H&V, Surf's Up, Wind Chimes, Vega-Tables, and almost have Fire - but unfortunately without the Fall Breaks vocals - full stereo versions)

I don't know if I should try my own version or wait a good stereo Smile fan mix to arrive, but just to know if I should get high hopes or not, how stereo can this masterpiece be, with what we have, if we try to be as close as possible to the mono mix?

[runnersdialzero]

Our Prayer - yes
Heroes And Villains - in complete form, seemingly yes
D'you Liek Wermz - yes
Barnyard - the chorus vocals exist in some stereo form, so sort of, but we don't have them - the track, no
OMP/YAMS - no, Denny's lead is missing
Cabinessence - no, Carl's lead is missing, but the 20/20 mix is in stereo anyway
Wonderful - no
Look - yes
CITFOTM - Some sections yes, others, I don't know. The 2nd verse on disc 1, no.
Surf's Up - yes
I'm In Great Shape - yes
I Wanna Be Around/Workshop - yes
Vegetables - yes
Holidays - yes
Wind Chimes - yes
Fire - yes
I Love To Say Da Da - yes, although I don't know of the resources exist to make decent stereo fan mix
Good Vibrations - no, vocal tracks are missing
He Gives Speeches - yes

[Bleachboy]

Thanks!

Fire would work, with the Fall Breaks vocals?

Archaeology Part II CD 2 TR 4 has a version where the vocals are prominent, but it's really slower and it's impossible to remove the instrumental part...

[JMZ]

OMP/YAMS - no, Denny's lead is missing
Cabinessence - no, Carl's lead is missing,
Wonderful - no
CITFOTM - Some sections yes, others, I don't know. The 2nd verse on disc 1, no.
Good Vibrations - no, vocal tracks are missing

Not completely right here, have you noticed that -let's say- 70% of the songs you heard in your life (whatever artist, whatever period) are in the center of the stereo field ?

So it doesn't matter if the vocals we have are in mono, as long as the intrumental backing tracks and some backing vocs are in stereo.  

For YAMS and Cabinessence: the vocals have not been doubled (ok, there's ADT on Carl's voice on the 20/20 mix) so this means there's no point in having them in stereo.

On Wonderful: Brian's vocals have obviously been recorder twice, but they are both panned center.

On Good Vibrations: some backing vocals are available in stereo ("hum de hum" overdubs in e.g.)

So to answer: YES, with the release of TSS, SMiLE can be mixed in full stereo. The only doubt I have is for "Our Prayer": can someone confirm they recorded in front of a single mic ? If it's the case, then the only stereo thing in the mix will be the added reverb (BTW, that's what happens in my mix).

[runnersdialzero]

OMP/YAMS - no, Denny's lead is missing
Cabinessence - no, Carl's lead is missing,
Wonderful - no
CITFOTM - Some sections yes, others, I don't know. The 2nd verse on disc 1, no.
Good Vibrations - no, vocal tracks are missing

Not completely right here, have you noticed that -let's say- 70% of the songs you heard in your life (whatever artist, whatever period) are in the center of the stereo field ?

So it doesn't matter if the vocals we have are in mono, as long as the intrumental backing tracks and some backing vocs are in stereo.  

For YAMS and Cabinessence: the vocals have not been doubled (ok, there's ADT on Carl's voice on the 20/20 mix) so this means there's no point in having them in stereo.

On Wonderful: Brian's vocals have obviously been recorder twice, but they are both panned center.

On Good Vibrations: some backing vocals are available in stereo ("hum de hum" overdubs in e.g.)

So to answer: YES, with the release of TSS, SMiLE can be mixed in full stereo. The only doubt I have is for "Our Prayer": can someone confirm they recorded in front of a single mic ? If it's the case, then the only stereo thing in the mix will be the added reverb (BTW, that's what happens in my mix).

I was talking legit stereo mixes. I've never heard a stereo fan mix of "Good Vibrations" (among others) that didn't have phasing, timing issues, etc., In cases like that, I think folks should leave well enough alone (imo), especially when "Good Vibrations" is the single 100% finished and approved song from this era.

The 20/20 mix of "Prayer" is in stereo.

[Bleachboy]

OMP/YAMS - no, Denny's lead is missing
Cabinessence - no, Carl's lead is missing,
Wonderful - no
CITFOTM - Some sections yes, others, I don't know. The 2nd verse on disc 1, no.
Good Vibrations - no, vocal tracks are missing

So it doesn't matter if the vocals we have are in mono, as long as the intrumental backing tracks and some backing vocs are in stereo.  


On Good Vibrations: some backing vocals are available in stereo ("hum de hum" overdubs in e.g.)

Exactly!

I've seen on youtube a stereo GV with mono vocals over a stereo backing track, I think it's a member from here who made this mix (a Member of Parliament?) and it just sounded better than all the stereo vocals versions I've heard before. Vocals don't necessarily need to be stereo, especially when there's a lot of vocal parts: having them in mono can add something very powerful. But I'm just saying that because we can't mix GV vocals the way they mixed H&V stereo vocals on the box (amazing mix.)

The question is, what do you do when you've got a stereo backing track, and a mono mix with vocals? From previous experiences I know that mixing them together just sucks totally. So, accodting to you we can make a stereo TSS, how?

[JMZ]

I was talking legit stereo mixes. I've never heard a stereo fan mix of "Good Vibrations" (among others) that didn't have phasing, timing issues, etc., In cases like that, I think folks should leave well enough alone (imo), especially when "Good Vibrations" is the single 100% finished and approved song from this era.

Maybe you should listen to mine.   

[Austin]

Mono vocals on a stereo backing track can work well. The 2008 remix of "When I Grow Up", which does exactly that, sounds pretty good. What I wouldn't be interested in is a simple sync-up of the mono master with the stereo track, because then it sounds unbalanced.

When Abbey Road engineers had to isolate instruments out of the Beatles' two-track masters for The Beatles: Rock Band, they turned to CEDAR Audio, and they did a fabulous job. Although we're probably a while off from getting decent stereo vocals out of such a process, getting rid of the mono track? I think it's worth a shot.

[seltaeb1012002]

I was talking legit stereo mixes. I've never heard a stereo fan mix of "Good Vibrations" (among others) that didn't have phasing, timing issues, etc., In cases like that, I think folks should leave well enough alone (imo), especially when "Good Vibrations" is the single 100% finished and approved song from this era.

Maybe you should listen to mine.   

Damn good isolation man!!

[runnersdialzero]

I was talking legit stereo mixes. I've never heard a stereo fan mix of "Good Vibrations" (among others) that didn't have phasing, timing issues, etc., In cases like that, I think folks should leave well enough alone (imo), especially when "Good Vibrations" is the single 100% finished and approved song from this era.

Maybe you should listen to mine.   

Damn good isolation man!!

He done a good job, as did someone else here, but there's still too much in the way of sonic oddities imo. Not a knock on their work at all, it's just bound to happen when doing so much Frankensteining of a song that only has a completed mix in mono.

[seltaeb1012002]

Listening to JMZ's mix of GV again. Wow. That 1st verse is extremely convincing.

Someone at Capitol needs to contact him about doing the official stereo mix.

 

[Bleachboy]

I want it!

[JMZ]

He done a good job, as did someone else here, but there's still too much in the way of sonic oddities imo.

Can you point these sonic oddities precisely ? I'll try to improve for my next works.

Awright, my next goal: make a seemless/artefactless mix to the ears of runnersdialzero. If I manage to please him, I'll please everyone else, no doubt. 

[runnersdialzero]

He done a good job, as did someone else here, but there's still too much in the way of sonic oddities imo.

Can you point these sonic oddities precisely ? I'll try to improve for my next works.

Awright, my next goal: make a seemless/artefactless mix to the ears of runnersdialzero. If I manage to please him, I'll please everyone else, no doubt. 

Bawww. I'm not dissin'.

[JMZ]

Bawww. I'm not dissin'.

Yeah, no problem. Me too, I was just kidding ... Sorry