50 years ago today...

[JohnMill]

John Lennon wasn't perfect, but he gave the world great music and didn't deserve to be gunned down in cold blood by a maniac.

Outside the death of my mother I don't know if the loss of anyone else (let alone someone I didn't know on a personal level) affected me as much as the passing of John Lennon.  John for so many people (myself included) was a touchstone as far as everything we could be as people period.  Now some of that was pure BS but just based on the fact that this was a man who loved his young son Sean very much, it is an absolute tragedy that Sean had to grow up without him and John likewise missed the opportunity to watch his son come of age.  That in enough of itself is a tragedy.

Beyond that since 12-8-80 listening and seeing so many people react to the loss of this man in such similar ways, it's really hard to quantify how massive of a loss this was for music fans.  I believe a few years back Vh1 called the murder of John Lennon the most shocking event in the history of music and little more needs to be said than that.  People were shell shocked by the death of John Lennon in ways that are usually reserved for intimate family members.  There was an undeniable connection that John Lennon shared with his fans that went above and beyond most other musicians in that he not only defined his era but gave voice to the voiceless and the music of John Lennon and The Beatles gave hope to those living through what in many ways was (especially in the United States) as difficult era.  Derek Taylor once called The Beatles "the happy minstrels of an unhappy time" and I think that is the best way to describe them.  They weren't perfect but they provided for many that touchstone that perhaps one day things could get better (and better and better...).

[Andrew G. Doe]

John Lennon wasn't perfect, but he gave the world great music and didn't deserve to be gunned down in cold blood by a maniac.

No-one ever does (pause for quick once-over)... OK, except for tyrants and the like, but when you look at it all dispassionately, he was just a musician, and in his later years, a very average one.

OK, you can all start hating me now.

[JohnMill]

John Lennon wasn't perfect, but he gave the world great music and didn't deserve to be gunned down in cold blood by a maniac.

No-one ever does (pause for quick once-over)... OK, except for tyrants and the like, but when you look at it all dispassionately, he was just a musician, and in his later years, a very average one.

I don't know.  I think generally speaking his solo output lacked a great deal of consistency.  Like most people I love his first solo album (John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band) and consider it just as good or perhaps even better than some of his Beatles output.  As far as the rest of his records go, they ebb and flow as far as I'm concerned as I have a number of songs I like from each of them and then there are songs that I've probably listened to once and never will again.  I think he was turning the corner though during the househusband years as he was starting to write a lot of songs in the same vein that made his earlier work so appealing.  I love a lot of the "Lost Lennon Tapes" stuff and "Woman" off of "Double Fantasy" is as good of a song that I've ever heard.  I think the record itself though suffers from some production issues.  Some of the stripped down versions on the "Lost Lennon Tapes", "Lennon Anthology" and the DF reissue from last year I think are miles ahead of the original mixes.  That is just me though.

[18thofMay]

John Lennon wasn't perfect, but he gave the world great music and didn't deserve to be gunned down in cold blood by a maniac.

No-one ever does (pause for quick once-over)... OK, except for tyrants and the like, but when you look at it all dispassionately, he was just a musician, and in his later years, a very average one.

OK, you can all start hating me now.

Remember years ago when I said I agreed with you 99% of the time? It was the "Al sang on the demo thread". Well I have to disagree strongly with you. So it is now at 95%.

[pixletwin]

John Lennon wasn't perfect, but he gave the world great music and didn't deserve to be gunned down in cold blood by a maniac.

No-one ever does (pause for quick once-over)... OK, except for tyrants and the like, but when you look at it all dispassionately, he was just a musician, and in his later years, a very average one.

OK, you can all start hating me now.

Totally disagree. Lennon's songwriting was always strong. He just made the mistake of trying to control the album's production.. and when it came to that he was definitely weak sauce.

[SMiLE Brian]

John Lennon wasn't perfect, but he gave the world great music and didn't deserve to be gunned down in cold blood by a maniac.

No-one ever does (pause for quick once-over)... OK, except for tyrants and the like, but when you look at it all dispassionately, he was just a musician, and in his later years, a very average one.

OK, you can all start hating me now.

I actually agree that his solo career was a major disapointment. The murder stinks because it (maybe) robbed the world of a Beatles reunion or just the members coming to peace with each other. Lennon and Macca needed each other to make great songs, as both their solo outputs showed. I wonder what would have happened if the 1980s Beatles were just like the 1980s Beach Boys....

[SMiLE Brian]

John Lennon wasn't perfect, but he gave the world great music and didn't deserve to be gunned down in cold blood by a maniac.

No-one ever does (pause for quick once-over)... OK, except for tyrants and the like, but when you look at it all dispassionately, he was just a musician, and in his later years, a very average one.

OK, you can all start hating me now.

Totally disagree. Lennon's songwriting was always strong. He just made the mistake of trying to control the album's production.. and when it came to that he was definitely weak sauce.

Wasn't the best choice to learn production from a washed up Phil Spector. Brian would flip out if he heard some of Phil's horrible productions from the 1970s.

[18thofMay]

His solo "career" involved a retirement of nearly 4 years maybe more.

[JohnMill]

John Lennon wasn't perfect, but he gave the world great music and didn't deserve to be gunned down in cold blood by a maniac.

No-one ever does (pause for quick once-over)... OK, except for tyrants and the like, but when you look at it all dispassionately, he was just a musician, and in his later years, a very average one.

OK, you can all start hating me now.

I don't hate you, I actually agree that his solo career was a major disapointment. The murder stinks because it (maybe) robbed the world of a Beatles reunion or just the members coming to peace with each other. Lennon and Macca needed each other to make great songs, as both their solo outputs showed. I wonder what would have happened if the 1980s Beatles were just like the 1980s Beach Boys....

I think Paul McCartney had a great solo career without John Lennon.  He made two very well regarded solo albums to start his career ("McCartney" & "RAM") parlayed that into one of the most successful bands of the seventies ("Wings") and then had several standout records after that ("Tug Of War", "Flaming Pie", "Chaos & Creation In The Backyard").  

Yes I know in between you have records like "Wild Life", "Back To The Egg" and "Pipes Of Peace" but overall I'd say Paul McCartney had one of the better solo music careers of any artist of his generation.  

[anazgnos]

it is an absolute tragedy that Sean had to grow up without him

But as far as Julian growing up without him, who gives a crap, right?

[The Shift]

John Lennon wasn't perfect, but he gave the world great music and didn't deserve to be gunned down in cold blood by a maniac.

No-one ever does (pause for quick once-over)... OK, except for tyrants and the like, but when you look at it all dispassionately, he was just a musician, and in his later years, a very average one.

OK, you can all start hating me now.

I don't hate you, I actually agree that his solo career was a major disapointment. The murder stinks because it (maybe) robbed the world of a Beatles reunion or just the members coming to peace with each other. Lennon and Macca needed each other to make great songs, as both their solo outputs showed. I wonder what would have happened if the 1980s Beatles were just like the 1980s Beach Boys....

The murder also robbed us of what Lennon might have gone on to do with his solo career. He might have out out some mediocre stuff (and bear in mind, it was mediocre compared to what he'd done with the Beatles) but he also did some great stuff. I can think of other 60s artists who left the band that had given them fame, released years worth of comparatively unremarkable material, then pulled some classic stuff out of the hat.

[JohnMill]

it is an absolute tragedy that Sean had to grow up without him

But as far as Julian growing up without him, who gives a crap, right?

Well to John's credit he did attempt to re-establish a relationship with Julian during the mid seventies as there are pictures of John, Julian and May Pang at Disneyland during "The Lost Weekend" as well as photographs of John, Julian and Sean at the Dakota from later in the decade.  So there was an effort made to repair or re-establish that relationship.  It's cruelly ironic actually that both John and Julian had their respective parents taken away from them within a short time after re-establishing relationships with them. 

[anazgnos]

it is an absolute tragedy that Sean had to grow up without him

But as far as Julian growing up without him, who gives a crap, right?

Well to John's credit he did attempt to re-establish a relationship with Julian during the mid seventies as there are pictures of John, Julian and May Pang at Disneyland during "The Lost Weekend" as well as photographs of John, Julian and Sean at the Dakota from later in the decade.  So there was an effort made to repair or re-establish that relationship.  It's cruelly ironic actually that both John and Julian had their respective parents taken away from them within a short time after re-establishing relationships with them. 

His relationship with Julian was cut off again after Yoko's "smoking cure" episode in '75.  He was only "taken away" from Julian because he allowed himself to be.

[Heysaboda]

John Lennon wasn't perfect, but he gave the world great music and didn't deserve to be gunned down in cold blood by a maniac.

No-one ever does (pause for quick once-over)... OK, except for tyrants and the like, but when you look at it all dispassionately, he was just a musician, and in his later years, a very average one.

OK, you can all start hating me now.

Well, we won't start hating you, AGD; by cracky, we never shall!

Lennon had his ups and downs in his solo career; hard to top The Freakin' Beatles.

He was poised for a nice career comeback with Double Fantasy; HIS songs on that record stand up.  (uh, hers don't)

But look at his other work: "Instant Karma"; the POB and Live Peace LPs; most of Imagine.  That's some pretty solid and/or inspired work.

[JohnMill]

it is an absolute tragedy that Sean had to grow up without him

But as far as Julian growing up without him, who gives a crap, right?

Well to John's credit he did attempt to re-establish a relationship with Julian during the mid seventies as there are pictures of John, Julian and May Pang at Disneyland during "The Lost Weekend" as well as photographs of John, Julian and Sean at the Dakota from later in the decade.  So there was an effort made to repair or re-establish that relationship.  It's cruelly ironic actually that both John and Julian had their respective parents taken away from them within a short time after re-establishing relationships with them. 

His relationship with Julian was cut off again after Yoko's "smoking cure" episode in '75.  He was only "taken away" from Julian because he allowed himself to be.

Wasn't the "smoking cure" the impetus for John's reunion with Yoko to begin with?  I'm not denying that Julian got cut off from John during the final years of John's life but as I mentioned there are pictures of John and Julian at the Dakota after the birth of Sean.  Sean looks to be around six months-a year old in these photographs so it wasn't directly as a result of the reunion with Ono that Julian was pushed out of the picture.

[I. Spaceman]

John Lennon wasn't perfect, but he gave the world great music and didn't deserve to be gunned down in cold blood by a maniac.

No-one ever does (pause for quick once-over)... OK, except for tyrants and the like, but when you look at it all dispassionately, he was just a musician, and in his later years, a very average one.

OK, you can all start hating me now.

Bang on the money.

[Mikie]

I actually agree that his solo career was a major disapointment.

Well...........I'm not too sure about that. This ain't too shabby:

Lennon Solo Albums

Live Peace In Toronto  US #10 (Gold)
Lennon/Plastic Ono Band  US #6 (Gold)  UK #8
Imagine US #1 (2x Platinum) UK #1
Some Time In NYC #48  UK #11
Mind Games US #9 (Gold)  UK #13 (Gold)
Walls & Bridges US #1 (Gold)  UK #6 (Silver)
Rock & Roll US #6 (Gold)  UK #6 (Gold)
Shaved Fish US #12 (Platinum)  UK #8 (Gold)
Double Fantasy US #1 (3x Platinum)  UK #1 (Platinum)
Milk & Honey US #11 (Gold)  UK #3 (Gold)
Lennon Collection US #33 (3x Platinum)  UK #1 (3x Platinum)
Lennon Legend US #65 (Platinum) UK #3 (2x Platinum) Aus (4x Platinum)

Lennon Solo Singles

US, UK, (8 top 10 singles - three number 1’s, two at number 2).

[SMiLE Brian]

I actually agree that his solo career was a major disapointment.

Well...........I'm not too sure about that. This ain't too shabby:

Lennon Solo Albums

Live Peace In Toronto  US #10 (Gold)
Lennon/Plastic Ono Band  US #6 (Gold)  UK #8
Imagine US #1 (2x Platinum) UK #1
Some Time In NYC #48  UK #11
Mind Games US #9 (Gold)  UK #13 (Gold)
Walls & Bridges US #1 (Gold)  UK #6 (Silver)
Rock & Roll US #6 (Gold)  UK #6 (Gold)
Shaved Fish US #12 (Platinum)  UK #8 (Gold)
Double Fantasy US #1 (3x Platinum)  UK #1 (Platinum)
Milk & Honey US #11 (Gold)  UK #3 (Gold)
Lennon Collection US #33 (3x Platinum)  UK #1 (3x Platinum)
Lennon Legend US #65 (Platinum) UK #3 (2x Platinum) Aus (4x Platinum)

Lennon Solo Singles

US, UK, (8 top 10 singles - three number 1’s,  two at number 2).

His stuff sold well no doubt, but artistically, his music got pretty rough around the edges as he went through dark times in the 1970s. Double Fantasy was a good comeback that was maybe going to be the start of great things again if Lennon didn't get shot.

[I. Spaceman]

The problem with Lennon's solo career wasn't his music getting rough around the edges, but going soft around the edges.

[SMiLE Brian]

The problem with Lennon's solo career wasn't his music getting rough around the edges, but going soft around the edges.

I was thinking about the rough Rock and Roll album with Phil Spector where he belts out songs like "be my baby".

[JohnMill]

I actually agree that his solo career was a major disapointment.

Well...........I'm not too sure about that. This ain't too shabby:

Lennon Solo Albums

Live Peace In Toronto  US #10 (Gold)
Lennon/Plastic Ono Band  US #6 (Gold)  UK #8
Imagine US #1 (2x Platinum) UK #1
Some Time In NYC #48  UK #11
Mind Games US #9 (Gold)  UK #13 (Gold)
Walls & Bridges US #1 (Gold)  UK #6 (Silver)
Rock & Roll US #6 (Gold)  UK #6 (Gold)
Shaved Fish US #12 (Platinum)  UK #8 (Gold)
Double Fantasy US #1 (3x Platinum)  UK #1 (Platinum)
Milk & Honey US #11 (Gold)  UK #3 (Gold)
Lennon Collection US #33 (3x Platinum)  UK #1 (3x Platinum)
Lennon Legend US #65 (Platinum) UK #3 (2x Platinum) Aus (4x Platinum)

Lennon Solo Singles

US, UK, (8 top 10 singles - three number 1’s,  two at number 2).

His stuff sold well no doubt, but artistically, his music got pretty rough around the edges as he went through dark times in the 1970s. Double Fantasy was a good comeback that was maybe going to be the start of great things again if Lennon didn't get shot.

Some of the stuff on "Milk & Honey" isn't half bad either.  It's too bad he didn't seriously considering developing tracks like "I'm Stepping Out", "Nobody Told Me" and "Borrowed Time" more during the DF sessions as they are arguably better than some of the stuff he did include on DF ("Clean Up Time", "Dear Yoko").  Also the Cheap Trick version of "I'm Losing You" blows the version on DF completely out of the water.  

[Klay]

.

[pixletwin]

Walls and Bridges is one of the greatest albums of the 1970's and Nobody Loves You (When you're Down and Out) is one of the greatest songs of Lennon's entire career (Beatles catalog included) and is as beautiful as Till I die for my money.

[HeyJude]

Remember Lennon.   31 years ago.  I miss him.

Never did much for me once The Beatles were over: like Macca, he was coasting on past glories post-1969. Solo stuff was very patchy.

This is all obviously as subjective as anything can get. In my personal universe where everything is relative (I listen to “15 Big Ones” and enjoy some of the stuff on there, even though I know it’s one of the worst albums by one of the greatest bands ever), it would be hard for me to justify calling both McCartney and Lennon’s post-1969 solo output as “coasting on past glories” if I’m also listening to and enjoying pretty much anything the Beach Boys did in the same time frame. I think “McCartney”, “Ram”, or “Band on the Run” equals or betters “Sunflower”, “Surf’s Up”, or “Holland”, and I think McCartney has turned out more substantial work sporadically in the last 30 years compared to most of the Beach Boys’ group or solo output. Interestingly, I probably liken some of Lennon’s solo stuff to some BB records in that there is some great stuff and some filler I’m not too into.

In any event, if there’s actually anybody out there who is still considering whether to get into solo Beatles stuff, I’d give it a try. For me, saying their post-1969 stuff was coasting on past glories is sort of like saying the same of any post-1966 Beach Boys material.