Has anyone from Brian's old inner circle commented on BWPS

[Mr. Wilson]

Lets go away for awhile so we can have world peace.!

[PongHit]

try doing some goddam research

Did I miss some drama?  What's the deal with the hostility directed toward Nobody?  OK, so some peeps might think he's a little weird, but he clearly knows & loves the BB recordings, & he says some interesting stuff.  If someone doesn't like a topic, it's easy to ignore it — why bother responding to scold him??

Isn't trolling a deliberate attempt to create an argument, without on-topic content?  I don't find Nobody's posts to be disruptive here, in fact I generally like most of them.  I do, however, find the bickering disruptive — I'm here to think/discuss BBoys — I'm not interested in the politics of the board.

I don't know Nobody, but I welcome anyone who posts with enthusiasm & makes this a richer community, & I think Nobody qualifies.

And Clay, did you really need to take the lord's name in vein?  I read this thread on a Sunday no less!  If you really think Nobody is a troll, don't feed him.

[Andrew G. Doe]

And Clay, did you really need to take the lord's name in vein?  I read this thread on a Sunday no less!  If you really think Nobody is a troll, don't feed him.

I come here to read and debate the music of Brian Wilson & The Beach Boys - not to have someone's beliefs and personal dislikes imposed on me. There was recently an exodus from the PSML (myself included) precisely because of this.

[PongHit]

I come here to read and debate the music of Brian Wilson & The Beach Boys

Me too.
 

not to have someone's beliefs and personal dislikes imposed on me.

I'm not following you...  someone is imposing their opinions on you?  You mean Nobody?  Maybe I'm confused by what you're saying here, but how can we debate without expressing our beliefs?

[Compost]

nobody:  problem with liking girls in those years is that you will get stuck with them as they expand and wrinkle

every pretty girl is just saggy tits and wrinkled skin waiting to happen anyway, and a space filler for a coffin

Pure dreck.  Nuff sed.

A more appropriate thread would ask whether or not Brian has commented on  'Looking Back With Love' and if it has influenced him in anyway, e.g., increased drug use as therapy.

[RickD]

Other people are entitled to post any threads they want and nobody is forced to respond.

no he's not - that is the problem - he does.

I think he meant nobody as in no one, not "nobody" the poster.

thanks for that!

[nobody]

nobody:  problem with liking girls in those years is that you will get stuck with them as they expand and wrinkle

every pretty girl is just saggy tits and wrinkled skin waiting to happen anyway, and a space filler for a coffin

Pure dreck.  Nuff sed.

One man's pure dreck is another's timeless wisdom. 

[Magic Transistor Radio]

It's time for some of you to drink some of Brian's peace solution that he tested on his dog back in 1970.

By the way, is somebody going to answer Nobody's original question? I would like some answers damn it! Ok Magic Transistor Radio. Breathe...breathe...

[Sam_BFC]

I think I remember reading at some point in the last couple of years of Marylin's views on BWPS.  She was a special guest at one of the conventions and responded that the real SMiLE will always be that of the 60s or words to that effect if I remember right.

[Julia]

Honestly, I've been doing a deep dive on all things SMiLE and was wondering about this too. I know Diane said BWPS was "a revision" but what did Al, Marilyn, Anderle, Vosse, Siegal and Hutton honestly think? If anyone talks about it at all, it's always in the context of how cathartic the live show was, or how nice for Brian, but does anyone really listen to BWPS on a regular basis? Can anyone honestly say they'd rather bust it out when TSS is right there? That's what I want to know--do these guys really think this was the best way to "finish" it? (I know they're almost all dead now, but if they said anything before they died I would've liked to know.)

It's disappointing that this thread was such a needless shitshow but I guess that's SmileySmile sometimes.

To the person who said BWPS is seen as a novelty, not the definitive final word on SMiLE...you're right. And truthfully, that's not an unreasonable position to come to--it's exactly how most people feel outside the most hardcore protective Brian fans, I'd say. BWPS is nice and was good for Brian, but the sequence they went with has some serious problems and I think most people "sense" that even if they can't put it into words (or are too polite to try). Not to mention that nothing can ever beat the Boys/Crew in their primes, nor the warmth of analog recording.

[BJL]

Honestly, I've been doing a deep dive on all things SMiLE and was wondering about this too. I know Diane said BWPS was "a revision" but what did Al, Marilyn, Anderle, Vosse, Siegal and Hutton honestly think? If anyone talks about it at all, it's always in the context of how cathartic the live show was, or how nice for Brian, but does anyone really listen to BWPS on a regular basis? Can anyone honestly say they'd rather bust it out when TSS is right there? That's what I want to know--do these guys really think this was the best way to "finish" it? (I know they're almost all dead now, but if they said anything before they died I would've liked to know.)

It's disappointing that this thread was such a needless shitshow but I guess that's SmileySmile sometimes.

To the person who said BWPS is seen as a novelty, not the definitive final word on SMiLE...you're right. And truthfully, that's not an unreasonable position to come to--it's exactly how most people feel outside the most hardcore protective Brian fans, I'd say. BWPS is nice and was good for Brian, but the sequence they went with has some serious problems and I think most people "sense" that even if they can't put it into words (or are too polite to try). Not to mention that nothing can ever beat the Boys/Crew in their primes, nor the warmth of analog recording.

I think definitive final word on Smile makes no sense, but I think novelty also makes no sense. It's an important part of the story.

I almost never return to the album itself, but I've watch the live DVD on and off fairly regularly over the past 20 years. I think the key to making sense of Brian Wilson Presents Smile is that, at least if I understand the timeline correctly, it was really designed to be a live show first, and an album only secondarily. But while the idea that it's the "real" or "true" Smile doesn't really make much sense, it is an absolutely essential part of the story and the bigger picture of the music.

Also, it played a huge role in getting Brian active and working in the studio, and as someone who also listens to Lucky Old Sun, the Gershwin record, the 2012 Beach Boys album, and No Pier Pressure fairly regularly, it's a central piece of the overall story of Brian's solo career, too. None of which takes away from the original tapes or the original project or what Brian was trying to do in 66 and 67. But is way more important, to me at least, than the word novelty makes it sound.

[Julia]

I think definitive final word on Smile makes no sense, but I think novelty also makes no sense. It's an important part of the story.

I almost never return to the album itself, but I've watch the live DVD on and off fairly regularly over the past 20 years. I think the key to making sense of Brian Wilson Presents Smile is that, at least if I understand the timeline correctly, it was really designed to be a live show first, and an album only secondarily. But while the idea that it's the "real" or "true" Smile doesn't really make much sense, it is an absolutely essential part of the story and the bigger picture of the music.

Right, it's an unattainable ideal--a platonic theory of forms SMiLE. And yet... it's really not so impossible to reverse-engineer a "Platonic Dumb Angel," with the most plausible sequence from Oct-Nov '66, from when Brian was laboring under the impression that there would only be one SMiLE single, GV. (Which is an overlooked but crucial detail.) I say this would probably be something like: A1: (Prayer) Do You Like Worms A2: I'm in Great Shape [IWBA/Workshop/IIGS proper, ending with tape explosion] A3: Heroes and Villains (Barnyard fades) A4: My Only Sunshine A5: Cabin Essence A6: Wonderful  B1: Good Vibrations B2: Wind Chimes B3: Child is Father of the Man B4: I Ran B5: The Elements [Fire/Water Chant/Breathing/VeggiesDemo] B6: Surf's Up.

Along the same lines, we might then imagine a similar "Platonic SMiLE," representing Dec-Jan, when the album wasn't dead yet--VDP was still there--but after Anderle tells Brian they need a new single to launch BRI, which changes everything: A1: (You're Welcome) Heroes and Villains A2: Do You Like Worms? A3: Cabin Essence A4: Mrs. O'Leary's Cow A5: Barnyard Suite [IWBA/WS/IIGS/BY] A6: Vega-Tables (w/ fight)  B1: Good Vibrations B2: Wonderful B3: Wind Chimes B4: Child is Father of the Man B5: Second Day (I know it wasn't recorded yet, but some kind of watery/airy melody based on the abandoned CIFOTM stuff) B6: Surf's Up (Prayer). I know they're more similar than not--I'm very convinced I've cracked the code of what SMiLE '67 would've been generally, a few quibbles about bumping a track up or down one or two places, or perhaps juggling VT/GV/Wonderful between the sides notwithstanding.

You're correct it was originally done as a live project, then it got such acclaim (well deserved) they decided to make an album. In my personal opinion, all other petty misgivings aside, I think they should've just done a live album of their best performance or stitched together best performances (very SMiLE esque, that) and called it a day. If they were going to make a studio album, they should've taken the time to do it right--what are the best real instruments we got, the country's best players, recreate the Spector Wall of Sound techniques, run through each sequence 60 times if you have to to get it right, down to telling the accordion player he should back up a centimeter and face slightly to the right. If they weren't willing, why bother? If you're gonna settle when you KNOW this material can be done better, what's the point? Just give us the live, which sounds better anyway, has more energy and synergy, where little "imperfections" are part of the story of that particular performance, and call it a day. It's like that Shegiru Miyamoto quote about how a delayed game eventually comes out and THAT is what people have to remember, not the extra wait at the time. Meanwhile, a bad game is bad forever, and that's all anyone will talk about whenever it comes up.

Also, it played a huge role in getting Brian active and working in the studio, and as someone who also listens to Lucky Old Sun, the Gershwin record, the 2012 Beach Boys album, and No Pier Pressure fairly regularly, it's a central piece of the overall story of Brian's solo career, too. None of which takes away from the original tapes or the original project or what Brian was trying to do in 66 and 67. But is way more important, to me at least, than the word novelty makes it sound.

I agree with all of that and I'm grateful for those records too--highlights of his solo career. By all accounts Melinda helped him get comfortable with the music again and overcoming that artistic hangup which is fantastic. I hope my pedanticism on BWPS' relationship to the greater "Pan-SMiLE" saga is never mistaken for antagonism for the project in a vacuum. It's like how I love Smiley Smile on its own terms, and even as a lens through which to understand where Brian's head was at in Summer '67, but if someone where to argue it's what Brian intended all along in Autumn '66, that's when I push up my glasses and bust out an exhaustively worded letter to conjecture them into submission.