Darian and SMiLE

[puni puni]

How many of you would stand face to face with Brian and tell him this is not SMiLE?

"The 2004 SMiLE isn't the real SMiLE."
"Whaddya mean?"
"Well, it's like liking a Phil Spector record..."

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Alright guys, I understand, BWPS is NOT SMiLE how it was intended, HOWEVER, BWPS COMPLETES SMiLE's LEGACY
by saying, here's the material presented live. Theirfore, Darian is part of SMiLE.

Also, you guys do know Darian had an article in "LLVS" right? Pretty Cool huh?

[Iron Horse-Apples]

How many of you would stand face to face with Brian and tell him this is not SMiLE?

"The 2004 SMiLE isn't the real SMiLE."
"Whaddya mean?"
"Well, it's like liking a Phil Spector record..."

[Jeff]

I think Brian thinks it's SMiLE

I think he thinks he finished it

What does he know though eh?

We can all join that big long line of people who have enjoyed telling Brian he's wrong.

After all, the man's a brain fried idiot....

You think, but do you really know?  BWPS is Brian's live presentation of Smile recreated in the sudio. TSS is the original Beach Boys recordings. They are both Smile music, no doubt about that.

I forget the actual quotes, but he made quite a big deal about the fact he's finished it, and it was in the liner notes with a picture of him snogging his dog.

My own personal view is that had he finished it in '67 it would have been a whole different beast, but if he and VDP say this is the finished SMiLE, then I accept it as that.

I think a lot of the people who do not accept it as SMiLE are the people who had their noses put out of joint because Brian dared to finish it and take away their secret little special thing.
OMG Get Over Yourselves. Lol, innit. Deal With It and all those other brainless sayings.

He finished it.

Brainless indeed.

A lot of the back-and-forth is over terminology.  Obviously Brian (with considerable help) "finished" A version of Smile.  But again, Brian himself said that his 2004 version of Smile was "much different, much different" than what he wanted Smile to be in 1966-67.  I notice that none of you people who want to disregard the original sessions even acknowledge that quote.

I think that "the people who do not accept [BWPS] as SMiLE" (your words) recognize that the 2004 version is much different, is not the original vision, and therefore is not the "finished" version of the 1966-67 Smle.  They're two separate things.  One with the Beach Boys, one solo.  One with a young, motivated, completely-in-control Brian, one with a Brian who lets others take control.  One that is often dark, confusing, even sinister.  One that is, in Brian's words, "much happier, much more uplifting."

People's tastes vary, so some like one, and some the other (many like both).  But to say that the latter "IS" Smile, and that, by implication, the earlier sessions are NOT, is ludicrous.

I didn't say, it, Brian said it was SMiLE

This is the point I am making

Please take the time to read my posts properly and do not insinuate I am brainless.

Where in my post did I say that the original sessions are not SMiLE?

Can you read?

Brainless indeed.

Lets stop.

Please, I do not want to get into a row with anyone. I fully respect peoples opinions, and enjoy healthy debate, but don't make it personal Jeff!

As I said, the '67 SMiLE would have been a far different animal, I hugely prefer the original sessions, but if Brian says this is SMiLE, then I accept it as so. And good for him to have finished it and exorcised this huge personal demon. I just find it very demeaning to him to have this achievement poo pooed by a bunch of armchair obsessives.  (And I am guilty of this at times)

How many of you would stand face to face with Brian and tell him this is not SMiLE?

Check out the bolded text above--all your words.  If you didn't want to make it "personal," you could have avoided that stuff.

Anyway, I don't know what quote of Brian's you are even referring to, but it looks like you are misconstruing him and/or giving far, far too much weight to something that he may have been asked to say for marketing purposes.

What bolded out text?

I just expressed an opinion and got called brainless for it.

But, as I said, I don't really want a row, and now the mighty AGD has come out against me I'd better watch my back. I'd hate to become the next Phil Cohen!

I'm not really bothered anyway. I love SMiLE whatever incarnation it's in. I've loved it for 23 years. I was overjoyed to discover the first few tracks, and was overjoyed to get my first boot in 1990. I  was tremendously overjoyed to be at the first two SMiLE concerts in '04, and then having it on CD seemed like the icing on the cake, despite it's shortcomings. I'm very happy for Brian that he finished it, and I stand by what I say that if he says it's SMiLE then it's SMiLE. Better add an IMO there.

But then the box was announced, and I was overly-overjoyed. No complaints here!

Sorry if this offends you Jeff, Peace  

Ah, I see the bolded out text now. You mean this

I think a lot of the people who do not accept it as SMiLE are the people who had their noses put out of joint because Brian dared to finish it and take away their secret little special thing.

I can see why that might hit a nerve, but I think there's a ring of truth there. SMiLE was very special as an unreleased album. It's lovely to have a thing, a wonderful thing that only you know about. Then to have it finished, and released, and suddenly theres all these people saying how wonderful SMiLE is. These bloody Brianistas jumoing on the bandwagon. Your bandwagon.

I've heard these sentiments expressed a lot of times in relation to BWPS.

If my comments made you angry the maybe you need to look at why.

And if you need to call me brainless again, then I'll accept that, if it means you are working through this minefield of confused feelings you have.

I'm teasing, Peace Jeff, night night

Yeah, well Pom Pom Playgirl is filler!!!  How do you like them apples?

Just kidding.  You actually have a good point on that one.

[ghost]

I'd stand face to face with Brian and encourage him back on the cocaine & birthday cake diet and tell the old feller to write more lusty raunchy songs about teenage cuties.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Yeah, well Pom Pom Playgirl is filler!!!  How do you like them apples?

I vaguely remember getting very cross with someone for suggesting that. Was it you Jeff? If so I apologise sincerely

What can I say, I am a twisted mass of contradictions.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I'd stand face to face with Brian and encourage him back on the cocaine & birthday cake diet and tell the old feller to write more lusty raunchy songs about teenage cuties.

What, you mean like......Paedophile City

[SMiLE Brian]

The SMiLE  from 1966-67 has a spiritual and mystical vibe to it that I don't get from BWPS. Also i think that SMiLE also works better as an album in my opinion with the darker tone the SMiLE sessions have compared to BWPS. The vocal blend of the BB's and the use of the wrecking crew is so much better than what Brian's band could do either singing or musically.  The original album, if finished, would have totally been the greatest album of the 1960s. Still it was never finished, but I still think it is the apex of their careers and Brian's genius.

[Jeff]

Yeah, well Pom Pom Playgirl is filler!!!  How do you like them apples?

I vaguely remember getting very cross with someone for suggesting that. Was it you Jeff? If so I apologise sincerely

What can I say, I am a twisted mass of contradictions.

It was ... you had just come back from the pub.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Yeah, well Pom Pom Playgirl is filler!!!  How do you like them apples?

I vaguely remember getting very cross with someone for suggesting that. Was it you Jeff? If so I apologise sincerely

What can I say, I am a twisted mass of contradictions.

It was ... you had just come back from the pub.

And you've been biding your time, waiting for me to slip up, and then........pounce!

[Jeff]

Yeah, well Pom Pom Playgirl is filler!!!  How do you like them apples?

I vaguely remember getting very cross with someone for suggesting that. Was it you Jeff? If so I apologise sincerely

What can I say, I am a twisted mass of contradictions.

It was ... you had just come back from the pub.

And you've been biding your time, waiting for me to slip up, and then........pounce!

Yep, gets itchy back there in the bushes.  Glad I finally made it out.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Yeah, well Pom Pom Playgirl is filler!!!  How do you like them apples?

I vaguely remember getting very cross with someone for suggesting that. Was it you Jeff? If so I apologise sincerely

What can I say, I am a twisted mass of contradictions.

It was ... you had just come back from the pub.

And you've been biding your time, waiting for me to slip up, and then........pounce!

Yep, gets itchy back there in the bushes.  Glad I finally made it out.

Yes. I've been itchy in the bushes a few times. Calamine lotion's good

[Wirestone]

The vocal blend of the BB's and the use of the wrecking crew is so much better than what Brian's band could do either singing or musically.

Not true. Those who say this are blinded by nostalgia and not actually listening to the record. Different, yes. Preferred by some, yes. "So much better" -- poppycock.

The original album, if finished, would have totally been the greatest album of the 1960s.

Probably not.

[ghost]

I'd stand face to face with Brian and encourage him back on the cocaine & birthday cake diet and tell the old feller to write more lusty raunchy songs about teenage cuties.

What, you mean like......Paedophile City

Well the Beach Boys on the whole seemed more like ephebophiles, I think you or someone else posted this recently as well. It gets a bit murky in places - how young are the girls in a lot of their songs? I mean, what age do people think of while listening? Most of us are "grown men" listening to these things, and we wonder why a lot of women find our Beach Boys obsession weird? Oh great, my boyfriend's favorite song is All Dressed Up For School. Didn't Dennis marry Mike Love's underage daughter? I forget the details.

Anyone think Marilyn got insecure with Brian? Here he is singing songs about gorgeous California Girls --- be honest, does anyone picture a Marilyn Wilson hearing about the California Girls? I imagine beach bikini beauties with tiger like toned bodies in the sun being cool. Not Marilyn at the deli ordering pickles!

[puni puni]

Probably not.

Considering how Pet Sounds is usually #2 to Sgt. Pepper's #1...

I mean, what age do people think of while listening?

Well, Surfer Girl must be toddlers since it's babby's first Boy Beaches song.

[monicker]

Hey, it's kind of a little bit like 2004 in here all over again. Fake harpsichords and tack pianos, lack of fuzz bass, Wrecking Crew vs. Brian's band, Beach Boys harmonic blend vs. Brian's band, Smile vs. Presents Smile.

Anyone think Marilyn got insecure with Brian? Here he is singing songs about gorgeous California Girls --- be honest, does anyone picture a Marilyn Wilson hearing about the California Girls? I imagine beach bikini beauties with tiger like toned bodies in the sun being cool. Not Marilyn at the deli ordering pickles!

I think Marilyn is a million times more attractive than those California Girls. She and Diane are tops in my book and they make me swoon. What i always wondered was what she thought when Brian was singing "If Mars had life on it, I might find my wife on it." Uhh, Brian? Can we talk?

[ghost]

Hey, it's kind of a little bit like 2004 in here all over again. Fake harpsichords and tack pianos, lack of fuzz bass, Wrecking Crew vs. Brian's band, Beach Boys harmonic blend vs. Brian's band, Smile vs. Presents Smile.

Anyone think Marilyn got insecure with Brian? Here he is singing songs about gorgeous California Girls --- be honest, does anyone picture a Marilyn Wilson hearing about the California Girls? I imagine beach bikini beauties with tiger like toned bodies in the sun being cool. Not Marilyn at the deli ordering pickles!

I think Marilyn is a million times more attractive than those California Girls. She and Diane are tops in my book and they make me swoon. What i always wondered was what she thought when Brian was singing "If Mars had life on it, I might find my wife on it." Uhh, Brian? Can we talk?

I must admit I saw a video clip of Marilyn in one of the documentaries early on in their marriage and WOW did I find her to have a very exotic alluring look. She changed as she aged it seems but I can definitely see her appeal as a youth and a woman. She also gave birth to two girls who are attractive in their own ways. Wendy is more my type, but Carnie is sexy - dare I admit it? She's got a wild spirit you can tell - she's a Wilson for sure.

[Wirestone]

Considering how Pet Sounds is usually #2 to Sgt. Pepper's #1...

Does anyone seriously consider Sgt. Pepper's the best album of all time anymore? Heck, it's not even the best album by the Beatles.

[ghost]

Considering how Pet Sounds is usually #2 to Sgt. Pepper's #1...

Does anyone seriously consider Sgt. Pepper's the best album of all time anymore? Heck, it's not even the best album by the Beatles.

Who has heard all the future music to determine it the all time best album? Where does time begin and end for such a distinction to be made? Pet Sounds is lightyears beyond Pepper. I never tire of this discussion. Paul McCartney was a Brian Wilson fanboy worse than many here in his attempts to better the master. George Martin, too, only wishes he had one grain of sand worth of Brian's creativity. He worships Good Vibrations. Good Vibrations is everything George Martin is not. It is cool & has a funkadelic feel to it. George Martin is a classical dinosaur, he can handle a folky Strawberry Fields Forever demo from John but he could never touch the gospel psychedelia of Good Vibrations.

[Shady]

Considering how Pet Sounds is usually #2 to Sgt. Pepper's #1...

Does anyone seriously consider Sgt. Pepper's the best album of all time anymore? Heck, it's not even the best album by the Beatles.

Oh don't get me started, it's so overrated

[ghost]

Considering how Pet Sounds is usually #2 to Sgt. Pepper's #1...

Does anyone seriously consider Sgt. Pepper's the best album of all time anymore? Heck, it's not even the best album by the Beatles.

Oh don't get me started, it's so overrated

Tell me why. Let me hear the gospel, brother.

[SMiLE Brian]

The vocal blend of the BB's and the use of the wrecking crew is so much better than what Brian's band could do either singing or musically.

Not true. Those who say this are blinded by nostalgia and not actually listening to the record. Different, yes. Preferred by some, yes. "So much better" -- poppyc*ck.

The original album, if finished, would have totally been the greatest album of the 1960s.

Probably not.

Don't get me wrong, I like BWPS as great completed presentation of the SMiLE material, I just think the album material that was recorded in 1966 had an intensity that BWPS didn't recreate for me.

[Wirestone]

That makes sense.

It's funny -- I've been arguing a lot of points here, although mainly in defense of BWPS. But I do think that there's no question it's a separate thing from the original sessions. Closely connected yes, but clearly a different beast (and, toward the end, one that comments on itself in the new VDP lyrics).

So I have no problem making the distinction, and also no problem saying that those original recordings are magical. And that original BB blend cannot be topped. Absolutely not.

But -- all of that being said -- I think BWPS has its own authority and integrity, and it doesn't come just from the fact that Brian authorized and performed it. It comes from the fact that Van Dyke was there. And Darian. And that the BW band put so much of themselves in re-creating the music in a way that honored yet didn't threaten their boss.

Because if there's one tangible difference between the versions, it's that BWPS is almost aggressively upbeat. It is driven, and it is looking ahead, and it does not look back, and it is not scared or sad or melancholic. It is joy and triumph, but it is a joy and triumph of determination and effort. The original sessions are haunted by ghosts, and full of unfulfilled potential. The joy is found in seemingly boundless inspiration that would soon become too bounded indeed.

[Shady]

Considering how Pet Sounds is usually #2 to Sgt. Pepper's #1...

Does anyone seriously consider Sgt. Pepper's the best album of all time anymore? Heck, it's not even the best album by the Beatles.

Oh don't get me started, it's so overrated

Tell me why. Let me hear the gospel, brother.

Well I only consider about 6 or 7 of the songs on it great..

Contains obvious filler, I find it childish at times, production is not my thing either .

It's just massively overrated and one of my least favourite Beatles albums.

Also too much McCartney

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

That makes sense.

It's funny -- I've been arguing a lot of points here, although mainly in defense of BWPS. But I do think that there's no question it's a separate thing from the original sessions. Closely connected yes, but clearly a different beast (and, toward the end, one that comments on itself in the new VDP lyrics).

So I have no problem making the distinction, and also no problem saying that those original recordings are magical. And that original BB blend cannot be topped. Absolutely not.

But -- all of that being said -- I think BWPS has its own authority and integrity, and it doesn't come just from the fact that Brian authorized and performed it. It comes from the fact that Van Dyke was there. And Darian. And that the BW band put so much of themselves in re-creating the music in a way that honored yet didn't threaten their boss.

Because if there's one tangible difference between the versions, it's that BWPS is almost aggressively upbeat. It is driven, and it is looking ahead, and it does not look back, and it is not scared or sad or melancholic. It is joy and triumph, but it is a joy and triumph of determination and effort. The original sessions are haunted by ghosts, and full of unfulfilled potential. The joy is found in seemingly boundless inspiration that would soon become too bounded indeed.

I actually COMPLETELY agree!
Listen to AlternateBrianWilson Presents SMiLE, Specifically CIFOTM, it is so dark and mysterious!