Carl Wilson (Here and Now): My thoughts

[Magic Transistor Radio]

A few things that stick out to me when I watched this Bill Hinche film

1. His guitar playing: I believe I started a thread on here about this. But it was interesting to here a lot of guitar players perspectives on the doc. I thought it was interesting to hear that a lot of people learn some flashy guitar licks (I don't recall who they mentioned) but can't play the rhythm on Dance, Dance, Dance. A lot of guitar players like to show off, especially in heavy metal. But Carl did everything to serve the music.

2. The glue that held everything together: I have heard this before, but always assumed it was holding together the 5 or 6 official Beach Boys together. But it seems that it was much greater then that. All the musicians, managers, staff, wives, children, etc. He wanted to try and appease everyone as much as he could.

3. Held a lot inside: While trying to appease everyone else, he didn't seem to talk about himself very much or his own feelings. A lot of times that can be dangerous and someone can blow into a fuse. Especially when someone is dying a lot of garbage can come out. But according to one of his sons, he was at peace with everything. So he had a way of dealing with things and not hold it inside, I guess. On a side note, he did go through a rough patch in the 76-78 period, where he did seem to let off some steam when intoxicated or what not. But that was very brief. A rare time when he actually complained in public about MIU. Most of the time, he would say the political correct things like 'its not appropriate'.

4. Producer/band leader: Unlike Brian, he would 'let things happen'. He was not a General Patton in the studio, or in directing the band. He was a negotiator that aloud people to make the music they could make. Although, he seemed to have a quiet way of saying 'try something else' or 'you have 6 strings, I suggest you use them' , but he didn't seem to say 'do it this way!'

So those are some things that stick out to me. Great info. Enjoyed watching it!

[Jim V.]

A few things that stick out to me when I watched this Bill Hinche film

1. His guitar playing: I believe I started a thread on here about this. But it was interesting to here a lot of guitar players perspectives on the doc. I thought it was interesting to hear that a lot of people learn some flashy guitar licks (I don't recall who they mentioned) but can't play the rhythm on Dance, Dance, Dance. A lot of guitar players like to show off, especially in heavy metal. But Carl did everything to serve the music.

2. The glue that held everything together: I have heard this before, but always assumed it was holding together the 5 or 6 official Beach Boys together. But it seems that it was much greater then that. All the musicians, managers, staff, wives, children, etc. He wanted to try and appease everyone as much as he could.

3. Held a lot inside: While trying to appease everyone else, he didn't seem to talk about himself very much or his own feelings. A lot of times that can be dangerous and someone can blow into a fuse. Especially when someone is dying a lot of garbage can come out. But according to one of his sons, he was at peace with everything. So he had a way of dealing with things and not hold it inside, I guess. On a side note, he did go through a rough patch in the 76-78 period, where he did seem to let off some steam when intoxicated or what not. But that was very brief. A rare time when he actually complained in public about MIU. Most of the time, he would say the political correct things like 'its not appropriate'.

4. Producer/band leader: Unlike Brian, he would 'let things happen'. He was not a General Patton in the studio, or in directing the band. He was a negotiator that aloud people to make the music they could make. Although, he seemed to have a quiet way of saying 'try something else' or 'you have 6 strings, I suggest you use them' , but he didn't seem to say 'do it this way!'

So those are some things that stick out to me. Great info. Enjoyed watching it!

What did he say about MIU?

[bgas]

What did he say about MIU?

Carl Wilson -- Here and Now, Billy Hinsche's documentary on Carl Wilson is now available at www.billyhinsche.com.

[Emdeeh]

Most of the time, he would say the political correct things like 'its not appropriate'.

In Carl's case, that phrase was not merely political correctness -- the film makes it clear that when he said it, he meant it.

The most obvious example is his resistance to the military draft on religious grounds.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

A few things that stick out to me when I watched this Bill Hinche film

1. His guitar playing: I believe I started a thread on here about this. But it was interesting to here a lot of guitar players perspectives on the doc. I thought it was interesting to hear that a lot of people learn some flashy guitar licks (I don't recall who they mentioned) but can't play the rhythm on Dance, Dance, Dance. A lot of guitar players like to show off, especially in heavy metal. But Carl did everything to serve the music.

2. The glue that held everything together: I have heard this before, but always assumed it was holding together the 5 or 6 official Beach Boys together. But it seems that it was much greater then that. All the musicians, managers, staff, wives, children, etc. He wanted to try and appease everyone as much as he could.

3. Held a lot inside: While trying to appease everyone else, he didn't seem to talk about himself very much or his own feelings. A lot of times that can be dangerous and someone can blow into a fuse. Especially when someone is dying a lot of garbage can come out. But according to one of his sons, he was at peace with everything. So he had a way of dealing with things and not hold it inside, I guess. On a side note, he did go through a rough patch in the 76-78 period, where he did seem to let off some steam when intoxicated or what not. But that was very brief. A rare time when he actually complained in public about MIU. Most of the time, he would say the political correct things like 'its not appropriate'.

4. Producer/band leader: Unlike Brian, he would 'let things happen'. He was not a General Patton in the studio, or in directing the band. He was a negotiator that aloud people to make the music they could make. Although, he seemed to have a quiet way of saying 'try something else' or 'you have 6 strings, I suggest you use them' , but he didn't seem to say 'do it this way!'

So those are some things that stick out to me. Great info. Enjoyed watching it!

What did he say about MIU?

Not in the doc, but I have read that he and Dennis were outwardly embarrassed about it. That was also a bad period for Carl.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Most of the time, he would say the political correct things like 'its not appropriate'.

In Carl's case, that phrase was not merely political correctness -- the film makes it clear that when he said it, he meant it.

The most obvious example is his resistance to the military draft on religious grounds.

That's true. I guess I meant in terms about talking about the band. He always gave a politically correct answer to the media. He never spoke bad about Dennis or Brian when they weren't doing well. He always had a positive slant on the band and what its members were up to, even if he was not. Of course he called Smiley Smile a bunt instead of a grand slam, and didn't speak highly of 15 Big Ones. But those were in a nice way.

Maybe I am thinking of Dennis speaking of MIU calling it an embarrasment to his life and hopes that TM will f*** up Mike Love. But it seems that maybe Carl said some harsh things about it as well. I will have to dig up some books and look, unless somebody else knows what I'm talking about.

[Jon Stebbins]

You might have your records mixed up. Carl said some harsh things about 15 Big Ones in the press, as did Dennis. I think Dennis was the only Wilson who publicly bagged on MIU.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

You might have your records mixed up. Carl said some harsh things about 15 Big Ones in the press, as did Dennis. I think Dennis was the only Wilson who publicly bagged on MIU.

Ok, well, maybe I was just thinking of how Carl acted on stage in 77-78. I am thinking the Australian tours. He seemed a bit more out going then usual. Carl seemed more intoxicated then Dennis in the show where he was promoting POB, then Dennis said 'Carl got his for free'. Carl responded 'That's bulls***'

He is usually much more guarded than that. I don't know what his temperment was when he resisted the draft. Like "Oh geez, I can't kill anyone"    or "I am not going to war damn it!!" 

Somehow I know less about Carl now. 

[BillA]

Carl did criticize the band at times.  During his solo hiatus he expressed a frustration with the work ethic of the band.  One thing I do not recall him doing is publically criticizing other Beach Boys individually.  Anything critical toward the band would always begin with "we".

One of the most unexplored dynamics in the band is the relationship between Carl and Mike.  There is no doubt that they had major differences over the course of time, especially during the 77-78 time frame and yet Carl is the one original Beach Boy that Mike never had a public feud with. 

We don't know if they like each other, tolerated each other or respected each other.  They were band mates for 36 years.  Mike replaced Carl as the band leader and yet they continued to work together for 20 or so years following that. 

I find that fascinating - to some degree more interesting than the Mike/Brian and Mike/Dennis relationships.

[drbeachboy]

Mike replaced Carl as the band leader and yet they continued to work together for 20 or so years following that.

I'm not quite sure that I agree with your statement. Mike may have been calling the shots on the business side of things, but I doubt that he replaced Carl as band leader. Emdeeh?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Carl did criticize the band at times. 

Notably, and publicly, the Long Beach 1981 show: he was reported as saying "It was painful... Some rehearsals would help".

Wasn't wrong, either.

[Emdeeh]

Mike may have been calling the shots on the business side of things, but I doubt that he replaced Carl as band leader.

I'd say that fits with my understanding of things. The guys had different functions. Mike was more focused on the business end. Carl was focused on how well the band sounded on a given night, and he was the one who rehearsed them and conducted sound checks. He was the leader of The Beach Boys' band -- but when it came to the group itself, he had multiple additional partners' interests to balance and mediate.

[CarlTheVoice]

I really want this DVD but it looks very expensive on the site! Can someone tell me if they know how much it would cost in GBP to ship over to the UK?

Also, is it worth getting? I recently bought Endless Harmony and an American Bamd (after looking at reviews on here) and want to know if this is better than them. Thanks!

[PS]

Very much like being at a gathering following a funeral. Spending time with the family and friends of the missing beloved, reminiscing in response to a Citizen Kane like series of (written - Billy does not speak or testify) questions. The questions and answers are often quite interesting, if already familiar. And Billy's familial relationship to the people in the frame is a plus, and in one segment is quite moving (when he tries to get someone through it...). Clearly he is the right man for the job (my favorite bit of footage is going into Carl's house with the port-a-pack, back in the day).

What's missing is...Carl. The little fragments we get that are awkwardly interspersed and are rather maddening in their tease (looks like a session in Al's barn, but not a note gets sung that we are privy to. just the in-between moments, and nothing to speak of at that.) Can't believe that this is all that was available from the combined Wilson's archive of recordings of concerts and home movies over the years, etc.

I suspect there is still an ANTHOLOGY style film to be made about this group and this family that will gather it all. But that will have to come from inside, perhaps from one of the kids. Or we may already have it, with the half dozen docs that exist. (I actually think that  the BRIAN WILSON BIOGRAPHY VHS - narrated by Beau Bridges - may be the best).

The testimony is pretty much what you'd expect, but it is nice to do the rounds and get to hang out with and gradually get to know these folks as the disc goes on - Dennis and Carl's kids (those faces! genetics is amazing...) are fascinating even as they aren't, the ever gracious Marilyn, the former Mrs. Jardine and Carl's first wife, a little home movie snippet of Audrey that is pretty great. Brian is being his very efficient interview self and not allowing himself to be especially vulnerable, thoughtful or deeply introspective. So, yes, it's an authentic testimonial, with the right cast of characters, but it is somewhat surprising that, at the end of the day (or disc), we don't really learn anything that we didn't already know about Carl Dean Wilson (no Rosebud here, folks). Essentially, the "he sang like an angel/he was an angel" refrain gets sung over and over, in a round of voices like God Only Knows. By the end, however, I found that I got quite choked up, despite the often awkward editing (it's a lot more structured than the Dennis one). As news of Carl's illness and death approaches toward the end of disc 2, it becomes very moving  - from them and for us. Almost too painful to bear. It's a loving document for a beloved brother (in law), that's for sure, and i'm glad to have seen it. I found Mr. Beckley to be especially articulate in his recollections and observations. And I liked hearing from fellow musicians like Phil "Fang" Volke and the guy from Chicago. And it was especially interesting for me to hear a little about Caribou Ranch and his life for 20 years here in Colorado, right up the hills from me. Little did I know.

It was a trip to hear from Carl's band and to learn a bit more about that period (I saw him in Boston and they were great - and the bass player was spectacular - Carl hung out after the show and talked to us, and was incredibly gracious). But no footage of this, and, in fact----NO MUSIC ANYWHERE (for obvious reasons). There was another nice surprise for me - a little home movie moment of Carl that was apparently shot at Brian's Laurel Way pool (where they did the Sloop John B promo, right?), and I freeze framed and finally found ( I think) the precise location of the signed slab of cement that is my current avatar. You can just make out the heart.

I don't suppose I'll ever watch it again, but if someone ever comes over who loves the sound of Carl Wilson's voice as much as I do, this would be a nice way to invoke him and raise a glass in tribute. It is a kind of video seance.

[The Shift]

at the end of the day (or disc), we don't really learn anything that we didn't understand already about Carl Dean Wilson

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. I'm working my way slowly through the discs and so far I've discovered that Carl was a really nice guy, a great singer, a mean guitarist who held the band together and loved to have friends round for dinner.

A lot of superlatives but not enough anecdotes and seriously lacking footage of the guy himself.

Those who do the best tend to be the BBs' wives and former girlfriends; some of the musicians (the Carl Wilson band drummer – Alan Krigger? – is a blast, and should be given his own chat show!) have tales to tell but a few folks are merely referring to articles we've all already read.

The sound quality is all over the place -  I had to replay one or two clips, especially those of Brian talking, to understand what he was saying. 

Spread out over two discs, this is too much. It needs a severe edit (professional titles wouldn't hurt either) to get it down to what's worth saying.

And thank you PS for the heads-up for what I've still to see on Disc 2, as I might otherwise not have got that far.

Glad I bought it, glad I'm watching it, but not one I'll be returning to any time soon…

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Personally, I liked it better then the one for Dennis. Only because we already have 2 books on him. And now a documentary. Not enough has been said about Carl. Hopefully Jon Jon will write another book.

[CarlTheVoice]

Personally, I liked it better then the one for Dennis. Only because we already have 2 books on him. And now a documentary. Not enough has been said about Carl. Hopefully Jon Jon will write another book.

Why do you think there is so little on Carl? I just can't understand it! I want to know more about him as a person, not just a performer.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Personally, I liked it better then the one for Dennis. Only because we already have 2 books on him. And now a documentary. Not enough has been said about Carl. Hopefully Jon Jon will write another book.

Why do you think there is so little on Carl? I just can't understand it! I want to know more about him as a person, not just a performer.

amen

[John Malone]

I liked it okay. I probably will never watch it again. Good commentary and archival footage. But nothing real new. Sorry Billy. I bought your 1974 DVD too, and I'll probably buy all of your releases just to watch once.