Musical relationship of Brian and Dennis

[stack-o-tracks]

Mexico & Common are great instramentals if it's his voice you don't like.

But not liking Dennis Wilson is wrong. All you naysayers are WRONG. 

[A Million Units In Jan!]

No. He's a fool for not knowing the definition of cheesy or being ably to apply it correctly... no problem with his not liking it (plenty of music that's supposed to be great does nothign for me - e.g. The Smiths and Big Star), but the reasons stated were, frankly, ludicrous. The entire tone of the post was high-class trolling.

And thanks for the gracious way you expressed your thoughts on the subject. Much appreciated.

Really, I think you're the last person to try and call someone out for the 'gracious way you expressed your thoughts'. I've seen hundreds of your posts-just because you tell someone to phuck off in a nice way doesn't change what you're trying to say-and I've seen you tell people to f*ck  off for years. Just because I come out and say it, and you say it in a more 'dignified' matter doesn't change what the bottom line is.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Amen.

Funny how defensive people can get...

It isn't that he's defensive, it's just that his posts-a lot of the time-smack of, 'You're an idiot, and I know way more than you'. Which is fine, whatever makes him happy, I just think it's sad that you have to come to a message board to make yourself feel important.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Amen.

Funny how defensive people can get...

It isn't that he's defensive, it's just that his posts-a lot of the time-smack of, 'You're an idiot, and I know way more than you'. Which is fine, whatever makes him happy, I just think it's sad that you have to come to a message board to make yourself feel important.

You keep on thinkin' Butch, that's what you're good at. 

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Amen.

Funny how defensive people can get...

It isn't that he's defensive, it's just that his posts-a lot of the time-smack of, 'You're an idiot, and I know way more than you'. Which is fine, whatever makes him happy, I just think it's sad that you have to come to a message board to make yourself feel important.

You keep on thinkin' Butch, that's what you're good at. 

Hey, I call it like I see it, son 

[monicker]

I just think it's sad that you have to come to a message board to make yourself feel important.

A relief to see i'm not the only one who sees what this sad, distasteful, smug curmudgeon is all about. I wonder what he would be without Beach Boys minutiae and a messageboard. Respectfully, of course. Oh, and a lil emoticon right here --------> [here]

[SMiLE Brian]

Can't we all just get along and enjoy the main reason we are on the board, The Beach Boys and their wonderful music!

[hypehat]

What in the cunting christ are you lot arguing about?

He's allowed not to like DW for whatever banal reasons he has. I see no-one tearing into Luther, who's been of the same opinion for years.

Monicker, what would you be without your overriding passion in life? That's a stupid question.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I just think it's sad that you have to come to a message board to make yourself feel important.

A relief to see i'm not the only one who sees what this sad, distasteful, smug curmudgeon is all about. I wonder what he would be without Beach Boys minutiae and a messageboard. Respectfully, of course. Oh, and a lil emoticon right here --------> [here]

A damn sight happier, I'm thinking, but it's a burden I bear manfully.  Probably have more time to work on my cricket research, but currently Billy Beldham's not doing anything new, so it'll keep.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Can't we all just get along and enjoy the main reason we are on the board, The Beach Boys and their wonderful music!

We tried, four years ago. I recall it distinctly. Didn't work.

[Roger Ryan]

If I find anything lacking in Dennis' body of work, it would be that he would too often resort to a fairly simplistic "I love you" lyrical approach. Having said that, I would also add that I can't think of another performer who sounded more sincere in saying "I love you" than Dennis. His "I love you" was like an exultation to God!

I know it comes down to personal taste, but back in '77 LOVE YOU and POB came out weeks of each other and there is no question that POB sounded like the album that the Beach Boys should have been making that year. Brian funking it up on his synths has a certain charm, but it could not compare to the extraordinary musical and vocal arrangements Dennis came up with.

[SMiLE Brian]

If I find anything lacking in Dennis' body of work, it would be that he would too often resort to a fairly simplistic "I love you" lyrical approach. Having said that, I would also add that I can't think of another performer who sounded more sincere in saying "I love you" than Dennis. His "I love you" was like an exultation to God!

I know it comes down to personal taste, but back in '77 LOVE YOU and POB came out weeks of each other and there is no question that POB sounded like the album that the Beach Boys should have been making that year. Brian funking it up on his synths has a certain charm, but it could not compare to the extraordinary musical and vocal arrangements Dennis came up with.

Beach Boys doing POB in 1977 would of been a wonderful album, but i'm glad Dennis got recognition for POB as a solo album. Love You and POB were both the Wilson brothers' solo albums in a way.

[Andrew G. Doe]

If I find anything lacking in Dennis' body of work, it would be that he would too often resort to a fairly simplistic "I love you" lyrical approach. Having said that, I would also add that I can't think of another performer who sounded more sincere in saying "I love you" than Dennis. His "I love you" was like an exultation to God!

I know it comes down to personal taste, but back in '77 LOVE YOU and POB came out weeks of each other and there is no question that POB sounded like the album that the Beach Boys should have been making that year. Brian funking it up on his synths has a certain charm, but it could not compare to the extraordinary musical and vocal arrangements Dennis came up with.

Beach Boys doing POB in 1977 would of been a wonderful album, but i'm glad Dennis got recognition for POB as a solo album. Love You and POB were both the Wilson brothers' solo albums in a way.

1977 was a helluva year to be a BB fan.

[Nicko1234]

I do think that Dennis's image plays a huge role in what people think of both his drumming and the music that he wrote.

Image is massively important in music and anybody listening to Dennis's drumming will obviously have a picture of him in their mind. Knowing that it's a good looking rebel playing the drums makes a huge difference to the listener. If it were someone like Al then I don't think anybody would ever comment on his ability with that instrument.

As for Dennis's songwriting...I like quite a few of Dennis's songs but I also think he is very over-rated. Bambu is just poor (unfair to judge perhaps because it was never finished) and there aren't too many stand-out songs that he has on the BB albums. Pacific Ocean Blue is a good album but certainly not the masterpiece that some make out. Again image plays a huge part and if an unknown musician were to release that album then I don't think it would get much attention at all.

As others have said, Brian and Dennis were both writers of music rather than lyrics so it's no surprise that they didn't write much together. It's more of a shame I think that Carl and Mike didn't write together and that Dennis and Mike only co-wrote a few songs together...

[Nicko1234]

1977 was a helluva year to be a BB fan.

Considering the number of fans who seemingly stopped being fans in that year, I think there's plenty who would disagree.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Is there anyone else here who just doesn’t “get” the Dennis fixation? I don’t get it at all. But i would like to. I find 95% of what he wrote to be maudlin, dull, pedestrian, and overwhelmingly cheesy, which i think only worsened over his years writing. By the time of POB and Bambu, i find the music abysmal and intolerable. He’s also my least favorite voice/singer of the group, including Bruce. I get the feeling that there are Dennis apologists whose high praise of him are more so about the man than the music, and they just really, really want to validate him because a) he was Brian’s biggest supporter and defender, b) he was the “underdog,” the one who was sort of shoehorned into the group early on, and consequently received the most criticism in regards to instrumental abilities (subsequently people now like to say that Dennis was a GREAT drummer. Great? Really now?), c) he fit the charming, good looking rebel archetype; women adored him, and men looked up to him.

Thoughts? Bricks thrown at my head? What is the Dennis allure all about?! [/color]


I wonder how old Monicker is!

A lot of "kids" weaned on the last 2 decades of music really can't seem to understand or appreciate anyone who's persona or vibe isn't insanely self-aware and ironic or simply aping some aesthetic that came from people who did if for real and meant it..... Therefore, someone like Dennis, for some people, is like trying to make them translate a novel written in Latin on the spot!

That said, we all have the right to our own opinions on this board. As a confessed Mike apologist, I should certainly not be throwing any stones.

[Andrew G. Doe]

1977 was a helluva year to be a BB fan.

Considering the number of fans who seemingly stopped being fans in that year, I think there's plenty who would disagree.

Odd - a few crappy albums doesn't invalidate what went before.

[Amy B.]

A lot of "kids" weaned on the last 2 decades of music really can't seem to understand or appreciate anyone who's persona or vibe isn't insanely self-aware and ironic or simply aping some aesthetic that came from people who did if for real and meant it..... Therefore, someone like Dennis, for some people, is like trying to make them translate a novel written in Latin on the spot!

Good point, Erik, so I'll make it again. Dennis' music was free of the irony that's all over pop/rock today. I was just listening to Ben Folds, and there it is. I think it's hard for some people to listen to such sincerity and take it seriously without dismissing it as cheesy. But then, Brian's music is also free from irony. Maybe since he didn't have as many love ballads as Dennis, Brian's music can be forgiven more readily.

I also think there are a few things you're never supposed to utter in Beach Boys fandom, and maybe that should be a thread of its own. One would be that Dennis' music was cheesy. Another would be that Carl was anything less than an angel. The latter is subject to speculation only (unless you knew him), but the former is subject to opinion. I think moniker's opinion is valid, even if I don't agree with it.
 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I agree totally!

It's funny because Moniker is right in that, for some, the 70's bearded, womanizing, drunken, drugging, sensitive, macho, chest beating Dennis image (if one doesn't examine too closely) IS something of a cheesy stereotype, and can certainly  be something of a turn-off. I mean, if one isn't impressed by Dennis' looks or charm, it will be that much harder to appreciate the man.

But of course, for most of us who know and love his music, that stereotype image doesn't really matter or even register, so it's a difficult subject to approach when someone innocently brings it up.

Er, and the same goes for Mike too 

[Nicko1234]

Odd - a few crappy albums doesn't invalidate what went before.

But for just the general, average fan...

Early 60s - The band constantly improving in terms of musicianship, songwriting, production and live performances. Also, gaining in popularity all of the time with anything seemingly possible. Those were surely the years to be fans of the group.

Contrast with 1977 - The realization that Brian was far from back and was clearly still seriously mentally ill, the live shows not hitting the heights that they had a few years previously, obvious issues within the band, a patchy album that didn't sell at all and hinted again that all was far from well behind the scenes, Dennis' and Brian's voices having clearly gone etc. I'm not sure that one solo album cancelled all of that out for many fans.

[Jonas]

Amen.

Funny how defensive people can get...

Not half a funny as a mod who's anything but impartial. 

If this was the case, there wouldn't be a thread to be replying to right now.

[DonnyL]

While I do believe it's the uniqueness, rough edges, and emotional intensity/sincerity that draws a lot of non-Beach Boys fans to Dennis' music,

I also feel that Dennis gets a lot of respect because he is, quite simply, generally regarded as the 2nd best songwriter in the group.  It was Dennis who lead the band's songwriting during the "wilderness" era ('68-'72), and his songs along with Carl's voice kept Brian Wilson's sound alive and took it into the new era.

I don't really see how anyone who is a fan of FRIENDS, 20/20, SUNFLOWER and HOLLAND not at least partially agreeing. 

in addition, Dennis was indeed ahead of his time musically ... which is another interesting aspect to the story -- people didn't quite value his contributions at the time of the original release; it took awhile to let it kind of sink in.

[oldsurferdude]

Luke said it best - "...uhh what we got here is failure t'communicate." Truth be told, crotchety, opinionated Androu Gee Dough is gettin' a tad old and crusty not to mention a bit o' girth to boot. But everyone here shouldn't be a bit surprised as to what he's gonna say and how he says it-N'est pas?

[hypehat]

never change, man 

[oldsurferdude]

never change, man 

Don't plan to-how 'bout you? We are what we are.