Smile release date and price, it seems

[PhilCohen]

And, who knows; it may have been non-cooperation from Carl that caused the 1966 work on "Cabinessence" to stop. Mike Love may not have liked the words "Over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield", but he DID cooperate and sing them at the 1966 sessions.

this is a lil example how misinformation gets out.  not saying you're saying it, but this can be read as "well carl didn't wanna sing the lead for cabinessense in 1966, but mike DID sing his part".  ridiculous.

Ridiculous? Listen to the recording, as it stood when "Smile" was abandoned. Mike's parts had been recorded, but the sections where Carl would eventually sing his solo passages had only Brian's background parts.

[Mikie]

Phil said:

"Before Capitol decided to spend big money on the tape research, mixing etc. for a "Smile" project, they got Brian & Mike's signatures on the dotted line, and, fully aware of the problems that delayed the release of "The Pet Sounds Sessions", I'm sure that there was wording in the contracts designed to prevent Brian or Mike from stopping the Smile box release for frivolous reasons. With one last chance to redeem himself, it is unlikely that Mike Love will stop the "Smile" box."

Very smart move by Capitol. They learned their lesson with the Pet Sounds box, which was delayed a year because Mike didn't think he was given enough acknowledgement in the accompanying book. If I remember right, also at issue was the bridge to Wouldn't It Be Nice. I think Carl wanted some change too, didn't he? This time, a written agreement right up front that there's to be no last minute changes to delay the release.

I wouldn't mind that much if Brian made some last minute changes that caused a delay, though, if it meant getting it right. 

[hypehat]

And, who knows; it may have been non-cooperation from Carl that caused the 1966 work on "Cabinessence" to stop. Mike Love may not have liked the words "Over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield", but he DID cooperate and sing them at the 1966 sessions.

this is a lil example how misinformation gets out.  not saying you're saying it, but this can be read as "well carl didn't wanna sing the lead for cabinessense in 1966, but mike DID sing his part".  ridiculous.

Ridiculous? Listen to the recording, as it stood when "Smile" was abandoned. Mike's parts had been recorded, but the sections where Carl would eventually sing his solo passages had only Brian's background parts.

Ah yes, but how do we know Brian wanted Carl to sing it in '66? Maybe he wanted Al, Dennis, or himself? Maybe Carl was tired at the session, and they decided to do it later and never got round to it. Maybe there was supposed to be a full vocal arrangement they never got around to recording...

Or maybe, when they dug it out of the vault in '68, they thought "Ah, balls. Hasn't got a lead. Go on then, Carl."

It could be anything, honestly.

[Andrew G. Doe]

And, who knows; it may have been non-cooperation from Carl that caused the 1966 work on "Cabinessence" to stop. Mike Love may not have liked the words "Over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield", but he DID cooperate and sing them at the 1966 sessions.

this is a lil example how misinformation gets out.  not saying you're saying it, but this can be read as "well carl didn't wanna sing the lead for cabinessense in 1966, but mike DID sing his part".  ridiculous.

Ridiculous? Listen to the recording, as it stood when "Smile" was abandoned. Mike's parts had been recorded, but the sections where Carl would eventually sing his solo passages had only Brian's background parts.

Correction - the tapes we know of are lacking Carl's vocals. Using your reasoning, I could say with equal justification, maybe Carl did record them and either we don't have them, or Brian wiped/destroyed them. Just because you, or I, or great uncle Barnabus, hasn't heard something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[PhilCohen]

Phil said:

"Before Capitol decided to spend big money on the tape research, mixing etc. for a "Smile" project, they got Brian & Mike's signatures on the dotted line, and, fully aware of the problems that delayed the release of "The Pet Sounds Sessions", I'm sure that there was wording in the contracts designed to prevent Brian or Mike from stopping the Smile box release for frivolous reasons. With one last chance to redeem himself, it is unlikely that Mike Love will stop the "Smile" box."

Very smart move by Capitol. They learned their lesson with the Pet Sounds box, which was delayed a year because Mike didn't think he was given enough acknowledgement in the accompanying book. If I remember right, also at issue was the bridge to Wouldn't It Be Nice. 

Presumably, Mark Linett had to actually play the "Wouldn't It Be Nice" vocal multitracks to Mike Love, to prove to Love that Love's vocals for the bridge were no longer on the multitracks, due to changes that Brian made to the multitracks back in 1966, after the mono single and album mixes were made.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Phil said:

"Before Capitol decided to spend big money on the tape research, mixing etc. for a "Smile" project, they got Brian & Mike's signatures on the dotted line, and, fully aware of the problems that delayed the release of "The Pet Sounds Sessions", I'm sure that there was wording in the contracts designed to prevent Brian or Mike from stopping the Smile box release for frivolous reasons. With one last chance to redeem himself, it is unlikely that Mike Love will stop the "Smile" box."

Very smart move by Capitol. They learned their lesson with the Pet Sounds box, which was delayed a year because Mike didn't think he was given enough acknowledgement in the accompanying book. If I remember right, also at issue was the bridge to Wouldn't It Be Nice. I think Carl wanted some change too, didn't he? elay, though, if it meant getting it right.  

No issue with the bridge (which was only on the stereo version and fixed anyway a couple of years later), but it's rumoured that Carl didn't like the stereo mix - however this must be viewed in the context of Carl's condition in late 1995/early 1996

[Mahalo]

When these guys decide on a mix, do they listen through headphones or just a sweet stereo system?

[Ron]

... Probably not the best place to ask, but I once heard something about Brian once having a 'special' setup created that mimicked stereo, to assist him in doing Stereo Mixes.  Anybody have any more info on that?  Is that still a problem for him? 

[hypehat]

I fail to see how that would manifest itself. Unless you mean some sort of hearing aid, which iirc wouldn't work - his ear is completely shot - but a special speaker contraption seems impossible to me. Unless he just walks around the room between both speakers. Alternatively, his secret weapon could be anyone else in the room with two functioning ears....

[desmondo]

When these guys decide on a mix, do they listen through headphones or just a sweet stereo system?

A variety of sources - monitors, stereo, car, headphones, iPod etc.

Songs can tend to sound different on all of these

[PhilCohen]

... Probably not the best place to ask, but I once heard something about Brian once having a 'special' setup created that mimicked stereo, to assist him in doing Stereo Mixes.  Anybody have any more info on that?  Is that still a problem for him? 

It may have simply been a one speaker system enabling Brian to monitor the overall sound in mono, even though it was being mixed(by the engineer) to stereo. Stephen Desper could probably answer your question.

[Roger Ryan]

... Probably not the best place to ask, but I once heard something about Brian once having a 'special' setup created that mimicked stereo, to assist him in doing Stereo Mixes.  Anybody have any more info on that?  Is that still a problem for him?  

Brian described his participation during the 5.1 mix of IMAGINATION by noting that he walked around the room listening closely to each monitor to assess the relative volume and balance of the vocals and instrumentation in each. Assessing stereo would probably be similar. Not ideal, but then Brian is probably doing this to O.K. an engineer's mix, not create his own.

[c-man]

When these guys decide on a mix, do they listen through headphones or just a sweet stereo system?

A variety of sources - monitors, stereo, car, headphones, iPod etc.

Songs can tend to sound different on all of these

Standard practice for some time now has been to mix primarily on a pair of "inferior" speakers (such as the industry standard Yamaha NS-10s), the idea being that if it sounds good then, it would sound good (if not great) on a better system.  And then of course they check the mix on a variety of systems as mentioned, and tweak it accordingly. 

[PhilCohen]

... Probably not the best place to ask, but I once heard something about Brian once having a 'special' setup created that mimicked stereo, to assist him in doing Stereo Mixes.  Anybody have any more info on that?  Is that still a problem for him?  

Brian described his participation during the 5.1 mix of IMAGINATION by noting that he walked around the room listening closely to each monitor to assess the relative volume and balance of the vocals and instrumentation in each. Assessing stereo would probably be similar. Not ideal, but then Brian is probably doing this to O.K. an engineer's mix, not create his own.

...and we should note that the surround mix of the "Imagination" album is, in places, not musically identical to the stereo. Brian must not have been listening very closely. Check "She Says That She Needs Me", where one passage that has vocals on the stereo version is instrumental on the surround version.

[Ron]

Dammit Phil, now I want to hear "She says that she needs me".  I guess I'll be digging out my imagination CD tommorow

[Roger Ryan]

... Probably not the best place to ask, but I once heard something about Brian once having a 'special' setup created that mimicked stereo, to assist him in doing Stereo Mixes.  Anybody have any more info on that?  Is that still a problem for him?  

Brian described his participation during the 5.1 mix of IMAGINATION by noting that he walked around the room listening closely to each monitor to assess the relative volume and balance of the vocals and instrumentation in each. Assessing stereo would probably be similar. Not ideal, but then Brian is probably doing this to O.K. an engineer's mix, not create his own.

...and we should note that the surround mix of the "Imagination" album is, in places, not musically identical to the stereo. Brian must not have been listening very closely. Check "She Says That She Needs Me", where one passage that has vocals on the stereo version is instrumental on the surround version.

You're right that there are some musical differences between the stereo and surround mixes, but the passage you're referring to in "She Says That She Needs Me" doesn't appear in the stereo version at all. The surround mix adds a reprise of the chorus immediately following the first chorus that only features the "dit-dit-dit" backing vocals and the concluding line "Sorry baby, it's time we said goodbye" (before going into the second verse as on the standard stereo mix). I suspect this section was always on the multi-tracks, but Brian and/or Joe Thomas decided to edit it out during the final stereo mix. Either they forgot to edit it out again when going back to the multi-tracks to mix the surround version or decided to leave it in as a "bonus". One nice aspect of the surround mix for this track is that the cloying nylon string accents are isolated to the rear surround channels so you can mute those channels to get rid of them!

[PhilCohen]

... Probably not the best place to ask, but I once heard something about Brian once having a 'special' setup created that mimicked stereo, to assist him in doing Stereo Mixes.  Anybody have any more info on that?  Is that still a problem for him?  

Brian described his participation during the 5.1 mix of IMAGINATION by noting that he walked around the room listening closely to each monitor to assess the relative volume and balance of the vocals and instrumentation in each. Assessing stereo would probably be similar. Not ideal, but then Brian is probably doing this to O.K. an engineer's mix, not create his own.

...and we should note that the surround mix of the "Imagination" album is, in places, not musically identical to the stereo. Brian must not have been listening very closely. Check "She Says That She Needs Me", where one passage that has vocals on the stereo version is instrumental on the surround version.

You're right that there are some musical differences between the stereo and surround mixes, but the passage you're referring to in "She Says That She Needs Me" doesn't appear in the stereo version at all. The surround mix adds a reprise of the chorus immediately following the first chorus that only features the "dit-dit-dit" backing vocals and the concluding line "Sorry baby, it's time we said goodbye" (before going into the second verse as on the standard stereo mix). I suspect this section was always on the multi-tracks, but Brian and/or Joe Thomas decided to edit it out during the final stereo mix. Either they forgot to edit it out again when going back to the multi-tracks to mix the surround version or decided to leave it in as a "bonus". One nice aspect of the surround mix for this track is that the cloying nylon string accents are isolated to the rear surround channels so you can mute those channels to get rid of them!

The musical differences between the surround mix & stereo mix of the "Imagination" album are because the surround mix was done by an engineer who was not involved in the album's original production & stereo mix.