Smile release date and price, it seems

[Bicyclerider]

I didn't read all the posts in the other thread -- but I assume Linett's interview was posted and discussed to death...
http://www.billboard.com/#/features/beach-boys-engineer-talks-about-the-smile-1005071622.story

Anyway...with all the 'Boys participating in this, as Mark mentions...I can't imagine this not taking awhile to release/approve.  Fall, definitely --  which I think is great timing.  Plus, with all of them participating, I think it really lends cred to this being the "Beach Boys" lost SMiLE album.  More so than "BWPS."  (original material, notwithstanding, obviously.)



Money Quote from article:  "Smile" is one of the most bootlegged albums of all time. What will be new for the listener?  For most of them, the whole thing will be new."

Probably the issue that will take the longest to resolve - Mike reading and objecting to Dom's essay and the liner notes, requiring several rewrites to ensure his essential role in the Smile project is well documented!


 

This is just too surreal.

[guitarfool2002]

The Capitol Smile cover with the "Duophonic" marking was the only authentic one apart from the mock-ups in the print advertising like Teen Set magazine. Those front cover slicks with the "Full Dimensional Stereo" marking were made for the collector market. It's posted in another thread, but the back cover image mentions "Duophonic" as well, so that was the one I'd expect to see on an official release package.

That's my memory of it - any corrections more than welcome! Please!

[bgas]

The Capitol Smile cover with the "Duophonic" marking was the only authentic one apart from the mock-ups in the print advertising like Teen Set magazine. Those front cover slicks with the "Full Dimensional Stereo" marking were made for the collector market. It's posted in another thread, but the back cover image mentions "Duophonic" as well, so that was the one I'd expect to see on an official release package.

That's my memory of it - any corrections more than welcome! Please!

Can't speak to definites, as there aren't any that I'm aware. I don't believe, tho, that Capitol made anything "for the collectors market" in 1966/67; that's when the slicks and color separations I own were made. So while the back slick does say Duophonic, along with the Duophonic slick, an alternate slick has Stereo w/o GV and I have Color separations for Stereo w/ GV.
 Having never seen an actual cover from the time( anyone possess one?) I can't swear they had decided on Duophonic

[guitarfool2002]

The Capitol Smile cover with the "Duophonic" marking was the only authentic one apart from the mock-ups in the print advertising like Teen Set magazine. Those front cover slicks with the "Full Dimensional Stereo" marking were made for the collector market. It's posted in another thread, but the back cover image mentions "Duophonic" as well, so that was the one I'd expect to see on an official release package.

That's my memory of it - any corrections more than welcome! Please!

Can't speak to definites, as there aren't any that I'm aware. I don't believe, tho, that Capitol made anything "for the collectors market" in 1966/67; that's when the slicks and color separations I own were made. So while the back slick does say Duophonic, along with the Duophonic slick, an alternate slick has Stereo w/o GV and I have Color separations for Stereo w/ GV.
 Having never seen an actual cover from the time( anyone possess one?) I can't swear they had decided on Duophonic

I never said *Capitol* made any slicks for the collector market.

[bgas]

The Capitol Smile cover with the "Duophonic" marking was the only authentic one apart from the mock-ups in the print advertising like Teen Set magazine. Those front cover slicks with the "Full Dimensional Stereo" marking were made for the collector market. It's posted in another thread, but the back cover image mentions "Duophonic" as well, so that was the one I'd expect to see on an official release package.

That's my memory of it - any corrections more than welcome! Please!

Can't speak to definites, as there aren't any that I'm aware. I don't believe, tho, that Capitol made anything "for the collectors market" in 1966/67; that's when the slicks and color separations I own were made. So while the back slick does say Duophonic, along with the Duophonic slick, an alternate slick has Stereo w/o GV and I have Color separations for Stereo w/ GV.
 Having never seen an actual cover from the time( anyone possess one?) I can't swear they had decided on Duophonic

I never said *Capitol* made any slicks for the collector market.

Ahh, but your statement would have to be taken as such, by me, since I know where my slick(s) originated.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The Capitol Smile cover with the "Duophonic" marking was the only authentic one apart from the mock-ups in the print advertising like Teen Set magazine. Those front cover slicks with the "Full Dimensional Stereo" marking were made for the collector market. It's posted in another thread, but the back cover image mentions "Duophonic" as well, so that was the one I'd expect to see on an official release package.

That's my memory of it - any corrections more than welcome! Please!

Can't speak to definites, as there aren't any that I'm aware. I don't believe, tho, that Capitol made anything "for the collectors market" in 1966/67; that's when the slicks and color separations I own were made. So while the back slick does say Duophonic, along with the Duophonic slick, an alternate slick has Stereo w/o GV and I have Color separations for Stereo w/ GV.
 Having never seen an actual cover from the time( anyone possess one?) I can't swear they had decided on Duophonic

I never said *Capitol* made any slicks for the collector market.

The front slicks with "full dimensional stereo" come from the original artwork... which would have been amended at the printers to read "DuoPhonic", as per the memo of 11/14/66

[guitarfool2002]

And we assume it was amended to read "Duophonic Stereo" because the album was never going to be mixed in true stereo, but rather in mono and "fake stereo" i.e. "Duophonic" as Brian's mono productions had been done previously.

I don't want this to be taken as anything but adding to the discussion, unless I can find my original conversations about this in my archives somewhere with solid proof to back it up. But the issue of the authenticity of the various slicks out there had been discussed regarding various online auctions and up to and including a slick which was apparently hanging at the R&R Hall Of Fame as an authentic 1966-vintage item, as the auctions in question were also labeled. Some of those slicks were labeled "Full Dimensional Stereo", and the issue was whether or not they had come from a printing run which was done a decade or so after the true originals were printed and accounted for. And the theory was that perhaps some of those being sold and displayed as originals were reproductions from that later run.

You can also tell how some of the cover images circulating online (Full Dimensional Stereo) were taken from the Teen Set back cover ad.

[entropyfan]

Money Quote from article:  "Smile" is one of the most bootlegged albums of all time. What will be new for the listener?  For most of them, the whole thing will be new."

The whole thing? Wow.

I guess they found a better source tape for Barnyard.

[Andrew G. Doe]

And we assume it was amended to read "Duophonic Stereo" because the album was never going to be mixed in true stereo, but rather in mono and "fake stereo" i.e. "Duophonic" as Brian's mono productions had been done previously.

I don't want this to be taken as anything but adding to the discussion, unless I can find my original conversations about this in my archives somewhere with solid proof to back it up. But the issue of the authenticity of the various slicks out there had been discussed regarding various online auctions and up to and including a slick which was apparently hanging at the R&R Hall Of Fame as an authentic 1966-vintage item, as the auctions in question were also labeled. Some of those slicks were labeled "Full Dimensional Stereo", and the issue was whether or not they had come from a printing run which was done a decade or so after the true originals were printed and accounted for. And the theory was that perhaps some of those being sold and displayed as originals were reproductions from that later run.

You can also tell how some of the cover images circulating online (Full Dimensional Stereo) were taken from the Teen Set back cover ad.

My front slick reprint originated in 1979, and was printed using the original colour separations, which were in the possession of a top-rank collector at the time. Exactly 1000 were printed (not numbered) and as supplied were well oversize and included the registration and crop lines.  That's how I know that the "new improved full dimensional" fronts are authentic.  These were, of course, later re-booted: you can tell those by the fact that the colours are quite right, and the printing isn't quite crisp enough.

The back slick mentions "DuoPhonic" because when that was mocked up in December, the decision had been taken by then.

[Roger Ryan]

Money Quote from article:  "Smile" is one of the most bootlegged albums of all time. What will be new for the listener?  For most of them, the whole thing will be new."

The whole thing? Wow.

I guess they found a better source tape for Barnyard.

I don't know if you guys are being sarcastic or not, but I'm pretty sure Mark meant that "the whole thing will be new" for those who've not heard/purchased the bootlegs.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Money Quote from article:  "Smile" is one of the most bootlegged albums of all time. What will be new for the listener?  For most of them, the whole thing will be new."

The whole thing? Wow.

I guess they found a better source tape for Barnyard.

"For most of them" is obviously referring to the majority of the buyers, that is Joe Q. Public, and not obsessives like us.

[Mahalo]

not obsessives like us.

Who here is an obsessive? 

[guitarfool2002]

And we assume it was amended to read "Duophonic Stereo" because the album was never going to be mixed in true stereo, but rather in mono and "fake stereo" i.e. "Duophonic" as Brian's mono productions had been done previously.

I don't want this to be taken as anything but adding to the discussion, unless I can find my original conversations about this in my archives somewhere with solid proof to back it up. But the issue of the authenticity of the various slicks out there had been discussed regarding various online auctions and up to and including a slick which was apparently hanging at the R&R Hall Of Fame as an authentic 1966-vintage item, as the auctions in question were also labeled. Some of those slicks were labeled "Full Dimensional Stereo", and the issue was whether or not they had come from a printing run which was done a decade or so after the true originals were printed and accounted for. And the theory was that perhaps some of those being sold and displayed as originals were reproductions from that later run.

You can also tell how some of the cover images circulating online (Full Dimensional Stereo) were taken from the Teen Set back cover ad.

My front slick reprint originated in 1979, and was printed using the original colour separations, which were in the possession of a top-rank collector at the time. Exactly 1000 were printed (not numbered) and as supplied were well oversize and included the registration and crop lines.  That's how I know that the "new improved full dimensional" fronts are authentic.  These were, of course, later re-booted: you can tell those by the fact that the colours are quite right, and the printing isn't quite crisp enough.

The back slick mentions "DuoPhonic" because when that was mocked up in December, the decision had been taken by then.

I need to clarify big-time: At some point in time there was a Smile cover hanging in the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame which was apparently loaned to the museum by Frank Holmes, and later taken back. I have no idea what if anything is displayed currently. Whatever version *that* cover which was on loan may have been, it was given to Frank in the 60's along with the original booklet. That to me is the real deal, at least in theory if all of that info is true.

It could be debated then which are the true originals. If Frank Holmes and a few others were given that cover and booklet in the 60's, whatever number of those were handed out and still exist are the true, 100% originals. If the color separations were used for a later printing run, and those are the "Full Dimensional" variation of the design which never went beyond that color separation stage, those are almost like fantasy prints: They came from the originals, but the originals they came from were never to be used for an official printing run after that memo.

The "Full Dimensional Stereo" color separations or proofs were created but that 11/66 Capitol memo killed that design before it was printed up in mass quantities. Forgive my use of terminology which I'm not 100% familiar with, but those color separations or proofs were made from Frank Holmes' original artwork to print the covers for the release and obviously the "Full Dimensional" banner made it onto mock-ups used in print advertising like Teen Set, but that memo from Nov. 1966 changed that officially to read "Duophonic", making that design at least one of the definite designs which would have been printed on the cover. These top banners were "cut and paste" clipboard graphics from Capitol, which were applied to their other releases on top of the artwork. But seeing one or the other would confirm the authenticity if such an item were to ever be sold at auction.

If anyone else has a Smile cover print, take a quick look at what that top banner on your print reads, either "Duophonic" or "Full Dimensional", then compare that information with the source of those prints.

[Peter Reum]

There are vintage mono, full dimensional stereo, and duophonic slicks. I have them all. They date from different phases of Capitol`s involvement with the project in 1966-67.

[juggler]

There are vintage mono, full dimensional stereo, and duophonic slicks. I have them all. They date from different phases of Capitol`s involvement with the project in 1966-67.

Peter, what about back cover slicks?  Are you aware of more than one version?  BTW, thank you for all you've done for the BB fan community over the years!

[guitarfool2002]

Where did the photo of the Smile cover published in Byron Preiss' book originate? That is a Duophonic cover.

[Mikie]

My front slick reprint originated in 1979, and was printed using the original colour separations, which were in the possession of a top-rank collector at the time. Exactly 1000 were printed (not numbered) and as supplied were well oversize and included the registration and crop lines.  That's how I know that the "New Improved Full Dimensional" fronts are authentic.  These were, of course, later re-booted: you can tell those by the fact that the colours are quite right, and the printing isn't quite crisp enough.The back slick mentions "DuoPhonic" because when that was mocked up in December, the decision had been taken by then.

I have one of those 1000 prints.  "New Improved Full Dimensional Stereo" printed at the top. "Good Vibrations" printed 3 times in 3 different shades of green. Printed in 1978, color by Barclay, complete with crop lines. I bought it in 1979 and it still graces my wall, next to my Beatles butcher cover.

[Mikie]

My other SMiLE cover artwork was provided to me from Frank Holmes and is signed by him.  It has "Duophonic for STEREO phonographs printed at the top. The rest of the artwork is the same as my bootleg print that I noted above.

I assume that's the "definitive" artwork, or the final Capitol-approved artwork that Frank used for his signed prints? I wonder if Frank even knew the difference as to which one was the latest of the greatest.

Peter, care to respond as to which one of the 3 you noted above are the most recent?

[bgas]

There are vintage mono, full dimensional stereo, and duophonic slicks. I have them all. They date from different phases of Capitol`s involvement with the project in 1966-67.

Peter.  That's really interesting! I was unaware there was a mono slick. ( Want to sell it?) 
Just one more SMiLE fact I haven't retained in the memory I suppose. ( there's lots of em; like the 11/66 quotes)

My front slick reprint originated in 1979, and was printed using the original colour separations, which were in the possession of a top-rank collector at the time. Exactly 1000 were printed (not numbered) and as supplied were well oversize and included the registration and crop lines.  That's how I know that the "New Improved Full Dimensional" fronts are authentic.  These were, of course, later re-booted: you can tell those by the fact that the colours are quite right, and the printing isn't quite crisp enough.The back slick mentions "DuoPhonic" because when that was mocked up in December, the decision had been taken by then.

I have one of those 1000 prints.  "New Improved Full Dimensional Stereo" printed at the top. "Good Vibrations" printed 3 times in 3 different shades of green. Printed in 1978, color by Barclay, complete with crop lines. I bought it in 1979 and it still graces my wall, next to my Beatles butcher cover.

That's interesting; Makes me think it probable that the Color separations I purchased are the ones used for the 1000 prints.
My Stereo Slick doesn't have the 3 GV's on it, by the way. 

[Bean Bag]

Money Quote from article:  "Smile" is one of the most bootlegged albums of all time. What will be new for the listener?  For most of them, the whole thing will be new."

The whole thing? Wow.

I guess they found a better source tape for Barnyard.

"For most of them" is obviously referring to the majority of the buyers, that is Joe Q. Public, and not obsessives like us.

Yeah...but coming from a like-minded "obsessive" like Mark Linett...I don't know.  Us obsessive-types don't think two shards about John Q. Pubic.  Plus...with BWPS (which WAS SMiLE in 2004, remember) and the, shall we say:  "in-the-know" buying potential of the SMiLE Boxset market anyway -- I'm prepared to believe the whole fuggin' thing just might be all new-and-shinny-like.

Of course, to an obsessive like myself...a new, brand new, crystal-clear version of "Barnyard," "Old Master Painter" and "Holidays" and "Look" is new to me!!

Wooooooooooooooo-hoooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!

[The Heartical Don]

I wouldn't believe any of them, least of all the May date.  If the assembly was finished yesterday (which I seriously doubt), there's no way to get it mastered, approved, manufactured, packaged and promoted in under two months. My best (educated) guess would be late summer/early fall.

I am not an expert on these things, but this sounds like an eminently sane take on it all. Don't all these retailers just make their, ahem, 'estimates', to lure potential buyers into placing orders with them? And a June release, seen from this date (April 21) would look a bit odd and badly advised... after all, folks don't just direct a substantial part of their vacation money into the SS direction all of a sudden (well, we here would do that, of course).

[The Shift]

I think it'd be nice actually if they postponed the release until Christmas. That'd give all us SSers time to chill, step back a little, relax, wean ourselves off whatever we're on, get over any spiritual hang-ups with the album's creation, allow VDP and ML time to kiss and make up, and save up a bit of dough.   

[The Heartical Don]

I think it'd be nice actually if they postponed the release until Christmas. That'd give all us SSers time to chill, step back a little, relax, wean ourselves off whatever we're on, get over any spiritual hang-ups with the album's creation, allow VDP and ML time to kiss and make up, and save up a bit of dough.   

Your last point is the most valid. See: there is also the forthcoming John Fahey Fonotone Box Set. How on earth should we... ... ...?

[PhilCohen]

I didn't read all the posts in the other thread -- but I assume Linett's interview was posted and discussed to death...
http://www.billboard.com/#/features/beach-boys-engineer-talks-about-the-smile-1005071622.story

Anyway...with all the 'Boys participating in this, as Mark mentions...I can't imagine this not taking awhile to release/approve.  Fall, definitely --  which I think is great timing.  Plus, with all of them participating, I think it really lends cred to this being the "Beach Boys" lost SMiLE album.  More so than "BWPS."  (original material, notwithstanding, obviously.)



Money Quote from article:  "Smile" is one of the most bootlegged albums of all time. What will be new for the listener?  For most of them, the whole thing will be new."

Probably the issue that will take the longest to resolve - Mike reading and objecting to Dom's essay and the liner notes, requiring several rewrites to ensure his essential role in the Smile project is well documented!


 

This is just too surreal.

Before Capitol decided to spend big money on the tape research, mixing etc. for a "Smile" project, they got Brian & Mike's signatures on the dotted line, and, fully aware of the problems that delayed the release of "The Pet Sounds Sessions", I'm sure that there was wording in the contracts designed to prevent Brian or Mike from stopping the Smile box release for frivolous reasons. For more than 40 years Mike Love has been portrayed by the media as the villain of Smile's collapse(though there were numerous other factors that caused the project to be abandoned). With one last chance to redeem himself, it is unlikely that Mike Love will stop the "Smile" box. And Capitol could address that possibility by giving each of the four surviving members a chance to write their own essay(with their memories of the sessions), so that if these memories conflict or contradict each other, that Brian, Al, Mike & Bruce will have each had a chance to air their views.

And, who knows; it may have been non-cooperation from Carl that caused the 1966 work on "Cabinessence" to stop. Mike Love may not have liked the words "Over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield", but he DID cooperate and sing them at the 1966 sessions.

[Runaways]

And, who knows; it may have been non-cooperation from Carl that caused the 1966 work on "Cabinessence" to stop. Mike Love may not have liked the words "Over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield", but he DID cooperate and sing them at the 1966 sessions.

this is a lil example how misinformation gets out.  not saying you're saying it, but this can be read as "well carl didn't wanna sing the lead for cabinessense in 1966, but mike DID sing his part".  ridiculous.